18-08-2003 00:40									#31
	Tired of ads?

Some civs could have just 2 traits, but to make things fair they should get extra UUs to make up the difference. Or something...

	18-08-2003 01:07									#32
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Captain Crunch Some civs could have just 2 traits, but to make things fair they should get extra UUs to make up the difference. Or something...

hi ,

that seems to be the general idea , more rea's , more units , etc , ......

have a nice day

	18-08-2003 11:46									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV But there can't be 3 Mil, Rel civs. Can you think of one of the 3 (Aztecs, Celts, Japanese) that can be something else?

Well, the Celts could be considered commercial, or expansionnist as well (huge territory before Rome's conquest, best integrated trade network for Iron of the time). However, Religious is a sure trait by them.

The Japanese can be considered pretty much anything... I never thought Religious really matched them. Industrious or commercial would be better IMHO, and scientific would be as justified as religious.

Aztecs are the real psychos of the game. Definitely, Religious - militaristic belongs to them.

	19-08-2003 19:59									#34
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Here's what I got for every single civ's traits. There are definately flaws throughout, and I hope someone can help me work them around for a better match. An asterix means it wasn't my favorite choice, but I ran out ideas (and room)

Mil, Sci: Hittites, Germans
Mil, Agr: Celts *
Mil, Rel: Aztecs
Mil, Ind: Ottomans
Mil, Com: Rome
Mil, Sea: Vikings
Mil, Exp: Zulu, Mongols
Sci, Agr: China
Sci, Rel: Babylon, Mayas
Sci, Ind: Persia
Sci, Com: Korea
Sci, Sea: Greece
Sci, Exp: Sumer **
Agr, Rel: Iroquois
Agr, Ind: America
Agr, Com: Japan *
Agr, Sea: Portugal (*?)
Agr, Exp: Russia
Rel, Ind: Egypt
Rel, Com: India
Rel, Sea: Spain
Rel, Exp: Arabs
Ind, Com: French
Ind, Sea: Dutch
Ind, Exp: Incas
Com, Sea: Carthage
Com, Exp: Byzantine *
Sea, Exp: England *

So, can anyone help me make this list a little better?

EDIT: I forgot to say why I gave Sumer 2 asterisks. I personally don't think of them as expansionist, but I think I saw them have a scout in the Mesopotamian scenario.

	20-08-2003 16:53									#35
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I won't tell you how many you got right or wrong but one hint... Sumeria aren't expansionist

	21-08-2003 06:08									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I don't think they are, but I ran out of room.

Since it was one of the few slots left, I saw this screenshot.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...ns.html?page=24

This is the Mesopotamian scenario, and those are scouts (Maybe not, but they have the same graphic, so I assumed)

I can't even tell if that's the same blue, but its very close.

I know there are other errors, as well, but this is a lot harder then I thought. I tip my hat off to Firaxis.

	24-08-2003 22:06									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I would think that with the new traights there would be no need to have 2 civs share the same traight combos.

hi ,

yes and no , it might be intresting if a couple had the same traits , ......

have a nice day

	30-08-2003 00:52									#38
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

3 civs have to have a combo another civ has

	30-08-2003 02:57									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I won't tell you how many you got right or wrong but one hint... Sumeria aren't expansionist

I assume you are testing Conquests?

	30-08-2003 19:47									#40
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV 3 civs have to have a combo another civ has

hi ,

why only three , ......

have a nice day

	31-08-2003 08:01									#41
	Suffering from ads?

Mil, Sci
Mil, Agr
Mil, Rel
Mil, Ind
Mil, Com
Mil, Sea
Mil, Exp
Sci, Agr
Sci, Rel
Sci, Ind
Sci, Com
Sci, Sea
Sci, Exp
Agr, Rel
Agr, Ind
Agr, Com
Agr, Sea
Agr, Exp
Rel, Ind
Rel, Com
Rel, Sea
Rel, Exp
Ind, Com
Ind, Sea
Ind, Exp
Com, Sea
Com, Exp
Sea, Exp

28 combinations, 31 civs

3 civs are left to share combos with others

	31-08-2003 16:32									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

hi ,

what about giving some civ's three traits , ......

to bad a civ cant get an extra trait during a certain era , .....

have a nice day

	01-09-2003 07:29									#43
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Its an idea, but its one I don't think they'll do (just a hunch)

As a slight chance I might get this right, I'll make a few edits to my list.

Com, Exp is now Japan
Com, Agr is now Byzantine
Sumer is now Sci, Ind
And I'll slide the Mongols to Sci, Exp

I look forward to the actual result, so I can see my numerous errors

	01-09-2003 08:48									#44
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV And I'll slide the Mongols to Sci, Exp

Except for yurts, specific saddles and bows, what exactly did the Mongols invent ?
I think the Mongols are the archetype of the Militaristic Expansionist civ, being Nomadic and hellbent to conquest

	01-09-2003 11:55									#45
	Suffering from ads?

i agree... mongol traits are probably the only which wound't need any discussion at all.

(but obviously they do :lol)

	01-09-2003 12:35									#46
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf americans could just as well get industrious or commercial, depending on which era is represented.

Perhaps. Or Commercial, Agricultural. There are a few different possibilities for America in my mind. However, I believe that if a civ like Germany isn't industrious, America shouldn't be either, since typical German people actually have a better work ethic.

quote: english (as i said in the post before) could also be expansionist (1/2 the world map was coloured red.... which btw should be their colour in the game, but that's not the topic here ).

True. But it wouldn't make that much sense England NOT being commercial. And since a vastly powerful navy enabled them to control that much of the world map, Seafaring seems like a more appropriate option for England.

quote: spain could have militaristic and aswell expansionist (they grabbed most of south america and the majority of central america)

It wasn't entirely through military achievement that Spain conquered most of Central and South America. They had far superior weapons, and diseases that the native populations hadn't been exposed to. Smallpox is what killed most of the resistance to their occupation. Not their swords or arquebusiers. But then again, they did fight for generations to reclaim their lands from the Moors prior to Columbus' expedition. However, using their occupation of the Americas as an example of 'military achievement' isn't the best way of getting that point across.

And it wouldn't make much sense not making them Religious, since they did enact the Inquisition in both their homeland and their colonies for hundreds of years. Even today, most Spaniards are devoutly Catholic.

quote: basicly, it looks like you've taken away the expansionist of all civs

If Expansionist were to get axed, I'm shedding no tears for it. Even if I do think it should stay. Agricultural and almost makes this trait a bit redundant since the main point was to get granaries quickly (so as to expand quickly). Since Agricultural features cheaper granaries, what little use for expansionist's starting tech is gone. While expansionists get scouts and better results from goody huts, its not exactly a game winner.

But I still think to be as historically accurate as you can be in this game the Americans, Russians, Zulu and Mongols still deserve the trait.

	01-09-2003 22:58									#47
	Got spare money?

I don't think the Mongols were Scientific, I just ran out of room

How about:

Mil, Sci: Hittites, Germans
Mil, Agr: Zulu
Mil, Rel: Aztecs, Celts
Mil, Ind: China
Mil, Com: Rome
Mil, Sea: Vikings
Mil, Exp: Mongols
Sci, Agr: Sumer
Sci, Rel: Babylon, Mayas
Sci, Ind: Persia
Sci, Com: Korea
Sci, Sea: Greece
Sci, Exp: Ottomans
Agr, Rel: Iroquois
Agr, Ind: America
Agr, Com: Byzantine
Agr, Sea: Portugal
Agr, Exp: Russia
Rel, Ind: Egypt
Rel, Com: India
Rel, Sea: Spain
Rel, Exp: Arabs
Ind, Com: French
Ind, Sea: Carthage
Ind, Exp: Incas
Com, Sea: England
Com, Exp: Japan
Sea, Exp: Portugal

	03-09-2003 01:03									#48
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Except for yurts, specific saddles and bows, what exactly did the Mongols invent ? I think the Mongols are the archetype of the Militaristic Expansionist civ, being Nomadic and hellbent to conquest

Actually there archtype Expansionist/Agricultural...

But Japan...why Commerical? Its only within the last 50 years they've been commerically motivated....not really a time period you should draw on for giving an overarching drive....they were'nt expansionististc except for claiming korea and during the 20th century....

Agr/Mil seems the best fit...but even that i'm not comfortable with.

Agri/Ind...japanese were among the more open of the eastern nations...i just can't seem commerce though....................

	03-09-2003 03:09									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well, Byzantine have to have religious as a trait. Probably the biggest dominant factor of the Byzantine Empire was the Orthodox church. What's this suggestion of "Agri/Com" ? Rubbish!
Religious/Com or Rel/Seafaring. (Consider the UU is a BOAT)

-Jam

	03-09-2003 23:13									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I think Rel, Com or Sci, Com fits Byzantine really well. But I need traits for India and Korea.

I think Spain is a good Rel, Sea

I don't think they are Agr, Com but I ran out of places to put them

I don't think Japan is agricultural. I always thought they depended more on fishing than on farming

	03-09-2003 23:14									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Now that i think about it...i think Agri should be dropped entirely for Japan...they really weren't ever known for being an agricultural nation in any reguard....more fishing...

I'd say Rel/Ind is best...the current model Rel/Mil isn't good because they never were much of a militaristic nation except during Meiji Restoration, and only then starting about the time of WWI...less than 1/8 of the game turns...

Also China should not be military...never were they militaristc nation...even today i'd say they really weren't militaristic any more than any other nation of their size and power would mandate...

Industious....its debatable....China has had a long history of wanting constant rather than change...far longer than Mao's vision of an industrious china...sure chage does come, but chinese nation is slow to bring change until its required.

Agri/Rel is imo best for china...chinese emperors were always broken when their agriculture...and the Chinese way of life has always been rooted in religious and philosophical tenats.

Last edited by Lord God Jinnai on 03-09-2003 at 23:20

	08-09-2003 02:47									#52
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

When CIV 3 came out I started to experiment with each Civ having 3 traits, but with each CIV having half of the available traits I gave it up as not being practical. With the two new traits I will have to revisit this idea as I am not satisfied with CIV's limited to two traits.

	08-09-2003 02:57									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Mad Bomber When CIV 3 came out I started to experiment with each Civ having 3 traits, but with each CIV having half of the available traits I gave it up as not being practical. With the two new traits I will have to revisit this idea as I am not satisfied with CIV's limited to two traits.

hi ,

with 31 civs in the game , three traits does change a lot , .....

it leads to better gameplay , .......


you can also let some civs start with certain free techs , .....

since you can do this for each era , this leads also to a better game , ......

have a nice day

	17-09-2003 15:47									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

China should definately keep its militaristic stat. Ever heard of Romance of the Three Kingdoms period? China has been at war in one form or another for virtually its entire existance like 3000 years rofl.

	24-09-2003 12:09									#55
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: What will be the benefits for the Agriculture & Seafaring traits? Agricultural recieves a bonus food in its City square. and Agr gets extra food on irrigated desert Seafaring ships increase movement by 1 agricultural also gets cheaper aqueducts, recycling plants and solar plants. Does seafaring always start near the coast as well? Didn't remember if that stayed in. And if the Agr city tile is next to water the despotism penalty doesn't apply to its food Searfaring locations is "usually" on the coast, but not always, a much increased chance Seafaring also get decreased sinking chance, and city built along the coast receives a commerce bonus in the center city square Also cheaper docks and harbors cheap harbors... mmmmm =)

(source: CFC - chat, edited version)

imho argicultural sounds like an extremely powerful trait, somewhere in the region of industrial.
- no despotism penalty if city is near water, makes cities destined for rexing. the only disadvantage is that OCP or similar concepts might be broken (until now the only disadvantage was that the aqueduct had to be built)
- a bad start on a dry map (desert) is like starting with loads of plains (2f, 1s)
- cheaper aqueducts

seafaring seems good and can be great for human players on coastal maps (more successful suicing galleys)

your impressions?

	26-09-2003 10:45									#56
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Some traits I think should be but do not know.:

Americans: Com/Ind
English: Sea/Exp
French: Arg/?
Japan: Rel/?
China: Arg/Sci.

Last edited by Du_Chateau on 26-09-2003 at 11:15

	26-09-2003 21:10									#57
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'm thinking the America will almost certinately be Agricultural/Industrial.

We're #1 in food produced. And look at all those late industrial and mordern ear wonders in the game that America actually built.

I think we'll also keep the F 15 UU, if nothing else, switching to an earlier UU is likely to make America way too powerful.

Yes, Seafaring + Expansionist seems to decribe Victorian era England very well.

I think France is most likely to remain Commercial + Industrial.

I think Religious + Seafaring would fit Japan well.

On China, I see it most likely remaining Military + Industrial.

	26-09-2003 22:04									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Sheik quote: quote: I won't tell you how many you got right or wrong but one hint... Sumeria aren't expansionist I assume you are testing Conquests?

Merepatra works for BreakAway Games. Apolyton really should give her a special label or something... it's great having her come visit now and then.

	26-09-2003 22:30									#59
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I'm thinking the America will almost certinately be Agricultural/Industrial. We're #1 in food produced. And look at all those late industrial and mordern ear wonders in the game that America actually built. I think we'll also keep the F 15 UU, if nothing else, switching to an earlier UU is likely to make America way too powerful. Yes, Seafaring + Expansionist seems to decribe Victorian era England very well. I think France is most likely to remain Commercial + Industrial. I think Religious + Seafaring would fit Japan well. On China, I see it most likely remaining Military + Industrial.

Why would the japanese be seafaring? When were they good at it? They were barely able to sail until China or Korea, and they never felt comfortable on sea. The samurais were fierce warriors on the land, not on the sea.

Mil+Rel just fits them so well. The whole feudal era (which I consider the golden era for Japan) was based on military classes, Samurais and Daimyos and their bushido code.

Otherwise I agree with your choices, maybe with a few exceptions:
- the French; but honestly I wouldn't know what traits to give to the french.
- the English: I'd think Seafaring + Commercial would fit the better (but seaf+exp makes sense, too)

China will most likely remain mil+ind, to allow for the Great Wall to trigger their GA.

	27-09-2003 02:04									#60
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

On Japan and seafaring, I was mostly thinking about Pearl Harbor, and how powerful the Japense fleet in the Western Pacific was from 1938 to mid 1942.

And the combo of Military + Religious is currently overrepresented.

On the Wonders, I imagine the Great Wall's traights won't change, but I wouldn't be surprized if some of the others did, particlary Pyramids, Great Light House, and Magellan's.

On France, the main reason I think they'll stay Commerical & Industrious is that it's their traights in original civ. (Commerical & Seafaring describes Holland at it's peak much better than France & England.)

Last edited by joncnunn on 27-09-2003 at 02:11