08-08-2003 08:51									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And Boris, with the 9/11 thing and the good shot at victory, I think Republicans might forget that . The abortion issue may be tougher to crack.

You're delusional, Imran. Not a single one of his primary opponents would forget that. 9/11 is long enough gone that his popularity wouldn't last against the fundamental ideological differences he has with the Republican rank and file of the rest of the country. Hell, even the upstate NY Republicans didn't like Giuliani that much.

Giuliani is more palatable to me than say, Bush, but he's not got a chance as a national Republican candidate. Hell, he's more liberal than a lot of prominent Democrats, like Lieberman.

	08-08-2003 08:51									#32
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The guy is Mayor Hero. The faults get overlooked... I mean the Republicans dropped everything for Ike, even though he didn't 'fit' like Robert Taft did.

	08-08-2003 08:51									#33
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I'd vote for Gray Davis

	08-08-2003 08:52									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The guy is Mayor Hero. The faults get overlooked... I mean the Republicans dropped everything for Ike, even though he didn't 'fit' like Robert Taft did.

Yeah, but back in 1952 all the crackers and KKK men were in the democratic party, not the republican party.

	08-08-2003 08:53									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The guy is Mayor Hero. The faults get overlooked... I mean the Republicans dropped everything for Ike, even though he didn't 'fit' like Robert Taft did.

I used to live in Louisiana and Texas. The pro-choice thing won't go away - neither will the anti-gun or pro-gay thing. Trust me.

	08-08-2003 08:54									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The guy is Mayor Hero. The faults get overlooked... I mean the Republicans dropped everything for Ike, even though he didn't 'fit' like Robert Taft did.

Imran...a pro-choice, pro-gay, anti-gun Catholic Republican is simply not going to get the nomination. Use some common sense. Hero status isn't going to get him far against the ideologues who operate the GOP.

Comparing to Ike is pretty laughable...Eisenhower may have not been as great as was said, but he sure did a hell of a lot more than Giuliani did to deserve the "hero" label.

	08-08-2003 08:55									#37
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I dunno Boris.. as a Republican, I've heard plenty of them say, even to THIS DAY, that if Guiliani ran in the primary against Bush, they'd tell the President to take a seat. He's still very popular among Republicans for what he did in 9/11.

	08-08-2003 08:57									#38
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And then these people would read his plateform instead of just voting over his news conferences of those few days, and bye bye support for him.

	08-08-2003 08:58									#39
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what did he do in 9/11?

	08-08-2003 08:59									#40
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I think in a primary he'd do just as well as McCain did... if not better.

	08-08-2003 08:59									#41
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We'll, he was on site very soon after the attacks trying to direct things..had to flee to escape the falling towers, then did a great job trying to give calm information to the city and to try to get the emergency services running well.

I never liked him much, but his actions on 9/11 and the few weeks after were exemplary.

	08-08-2003 08:59									#42
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Plenty? Who? The same ones who backed McCain? Northeast liberal Republicans? Maybe. But it will be a cold day in hell before he'd win any Southern state. The gun issue alone would be enough to kill him, and you can bet the NRA would gleefully thrash him in favor of a primary opponent who supported their agenda, hero status or not. Then there's the Pro-life and religious groups who will come out in force to oppose him. Abortion and gay issues trump hero status for religious conservatives. That, and the anti-Catholicism of the evangelicals will certainly be brought to bear on him.

John McCain was a war hero, and look how successful he was--he got thrashed the second he pissed of Pat Robertson. He was also far more conservative than Giuliani.

	08-08-2003 09:00									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I think in a primary he'd do just as well as McCain did... if not better.

McCain doesn;t march in gay pride parades. Oh, and the party machinery crushed McCain anyhow.

	08-08-2003 09:05									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Imran...a pro-choice, pro-gay, anti-gun Catholic Republican is simply not going to get the nomination. Use some common sense. Hero status isn't going to get him far against the ideologues who operate the GOP. Comparing to Ike is pretty laughable...Eisenhower may have not been as great as was said, but he sure did a hell of a lot more than Giuliani did to deserve the "hero" label.

Giuliani's campaign would never get a message out. The republican money machine would be non existent.

	08-08-2003 09:25									#45
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This is why I hate the 2-party system. There are many good, libreral republicans, like Juliani and McCain. There are also conservative Democrats (the "Blue Dogs") such as Lieberman, and my US House representative, Bernie Lieder. But they wouldn't have a chance in hell to win the nomination because of the Bible Belt for liberal republicans and the inner citiy areas and minorities for the conservative republicans.

	08-08-2003 09:27									#46
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Odin, McCain is NOT a liberal by ANY stretch of the imagination. He may not be a Religious Right conservative, but he's not remotely a liberal.

	08-08-2003 19:01									#47
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what bull is that, odin? ever heard of 20/60/20? 20% will always agree with you, 20% will always disagree, and you got to get the remaining 60% on your side.

because there a few percent more registered democrats than republicans, the GOP has always had to try to appeal to democrats to get elected... fortunately, a large percentage of democrats are idealogically more like republicans than democrats so GOP candidates have never had to try too hard but they can not be very far right wing... no matter how much liberals try to paint him as a nut, Bush is not far right wing.

similiarily, democrat candidates can not be too (socially) liberal after the primaries or they'd lose their base support among union workers and minorities. Only southern conservative democrats have had the presidency since Kennedy... Johnson, Carter, and Clinton, who wasn't really conservative but did always test the waters and followed the majority views.

so the point is, democrats conservatize and republicans liberalize all the time to get elected, especially to the presidency.

	08-08-2003 19:12									#48
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jesus, I'd take some of those republicans over Leiberman. What a spineless ****wit.

I chose McCain.