12-08-2003 05:15									#61
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german wwII uniforms were very nice looking, all of them. i like the german helmet of both world wars

	12-08-2003 05:35									#62
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The only reason such a fuss is made is because it's politically correct to make a fuss. I put up a swastika, everyone begins ranting about racism and the Holocaust. I put up the Hammer and Sickle, who cares? My point? Both of these are symbols of evil empires that slaughtered millions, but only one will spark such a violent reaction.

Stop overreacting.

Am I offended by a Swastika and SS runes? No, not really. I find it humorous that the people waving the swastikas and yelling "Heil Hitler" would have been slated for extermination or a life of labor by the Third Reich, had they been alive.

	12-08-2003 06:36									#63
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You put up a Hammer and Sickle in a store and you would get quite a response from more than a few people who would not find such a display amusing.

	12-08-2003 06:38									#64
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VIVA LA REVOLUCION

	12-08-2003 07:14									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Verto The only reason such a fuss is made is because it's politically correct to make a fuss. I put up a swastika, everyone begins ranting about racism and the Holocaust. I put up the Hammer and Sickle, who cares? My point? Both of these are symbols of evil empires that slaughtered millions, but only one will spark such a violent reaction. Stop overreacting. Am I offended by a Swastika and SS runes? No, not really. I find it humorous that the people waving the swastikas and yelling "Heil Hitler" would have been slated for extermination or a life of labor by the Third Reich, had they been alive.

Stop overreacting? OK. So, I guess you'll live by your own advice. You'll ignore racists, homophobes, and assorted other less than savoury types when they promote their views. Go ahead, let them recruit and persecute in peace.

You want to hold the Soviets equally accountable? Fine, do so. But stop being a twit who seems incapable of figuring out why some people would speak out against things that seem to promote an ideology of hatred, an ideology with less than zero redeeming value.

Oh, btw, I am just as hard, if not harder, on apologists for the Soviet Union. What do you do about it, except hide in your shell and hope that bad men won't do bad things if you keep your mouth shut, do nothing, and stick your head up your ass?

	12-08-2003 08:06									#66
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither And I don't giva a **** whom of what culture wants to glorify Nazi regalia. Those that do are worthy of a bullet. It's that simple.

Would you object to Mongol furry hats coming into style in North America and people growing Genghiz Khan moustaches? Why not? He let towns surrender and then put everyone to the sword as standard policy.

Fetishistic adoration of foreign dictators is no new thing.

	12-08-2003 08:13									#67
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueitherAnd I don't giva a **** whom of what culture wants to glorify Nazi regalia. Those that do are worthy of a bullet. It's that simple.

SDNWOTI

	12-08-2003 08:15									#68
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Would you object to Mongol furry hats coming into style in North America and people growing Genghiz Khan moustaches? Why not? He let towns surrender and then put everyone to the sword as standard policy. Fetishistic adoration of foreign dictators is no new thing.

wer du u get thoz hats? monguls r kul!

	12-08-2003 08:22									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Verto The only reason such a fuss is made is because it's politically correct to make a fuss. I put up a swastika, everyone begins ranting about racism and the Holocaust. I put up the Hammer and Sickle, who cares? My point? Both of these are symbols of evil empires that slaughtered millions, but only one will spark such a violent reaction. .

Wanna know why this is?

Because Communism itself is very noble and good, it's just every time people have tried to apply it power-mad leaders emerge and exploit the people

	12-08-2003 08:39									#70
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Stop overreacting? OK. So, I guess you'll live by your own advice. You'll ignore racists, homophobes, and assorted other less than savoury types when they promote their views. Go ahead, let them recruit and persecute in peace. You want to hold the Soviets equally accountable? Fine, do so. But stop being a twit who seems incapable of figuring out why some people would speak out against things that seem to promote an ideology of hatred, an ideology with less than zero redeeming value. Oh, btw, I am just as hard, if not harder, on apologists for the Soviet Union. What do you do about it, except hide in your shell and hope that bad men won't do bad things if you keep your mouth shut, do nothing, and stick your head up your ass?

I will tolerate racists, homophobes, and other less than savoury types, because they have the right to have their own opinions just like the rest of us. If they want to put swastikas in their store, fine. If they want to start attacking innocent bystanders in the name of their beliefs, then I will step in. If they threaten someone that has different opinions, then I will step in. If they want to flaunt the symbols of evil, I cannot and will not stop them, if it occurs in my country, because I believe they have freedom of expression and speech. If they want to pursue their revolting agenda by breaking the law, then I will step in.

	12-08-2003 08:47									#71
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And I am as free to my opinion that any who want to flaunt Nazi regalia are a waste of skin. And I believe I am free to express it. Don't get busted up just because not everyone is a gutless wonder of moral equivocation such as you seem to be.

	12-08-2003 08:49									#72
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I hereby procliam the Apolyton Civilization Site to be a



NAZI FREE ZONE

	12-08-2003 08:50									#73
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Would you object to Mongol furry hats coming into style in North America and people growing Genghiz Khan moustaches? Why not? He let towns surrender and then put everyone to the sword as standard policy. Fetishistic adoration of foreign dictators is no new thing.

Do you have a point here other than displaying what a blithering idiot you are?

	12-08-2003 08:53									#74
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither And I am as free to my opinion that any who want to flaunt Nazi regalia are a waste of skin. And I believe I am free to express it. Don't get busted up just because not everyone is a gutless wonder of moral equivocation such as you seem to be.

I respect, and agree, with your opinion. People who flaunt regalia related to the Third Reich are horrible people who have no grasp for what they are representing, or no conscience. They are terrible, terrible people.

However, because I believe they have the right to express their own opinions, makes me a "gutless wonder of moral equivocation"?

	12-08-2003 08:54									#75
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No, not condemning them does.

	12-08-2003 08:55									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar I hereby procliam the Apolyton Civilization Site to be a NAZI FREE ZONE

What about this?

	12-08-2003 08:57									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Still, Hong Kong as a British colony and someone in the company should've known better.

Ding, dong, HK is Chinese...

	12-08-2003 09:03									#78
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1) first of all, to all those who mindlessly claim communism is even remotely the same as nazism is a total bumbling fool. Whatever Stalinist or soviet perversion of "communism" was adopted does not mean communism had the same rascist and murderous tendencies of nazism. Read a little about communist ideology before spouting nonsense about things you've only learned about in the movies.

2) Regardless of how tactless displaying nazi paraphernalia is in a store, live and let live. Plain and simple. Trying to stop them from displaying that crap is no better than trying to stop anyone else from displaying whatever else offends you people. I hate colonialism and imperialism, I guess I should ban the Union Jack and the Star Spangled Banner from public display too. Silly stores like those shoot themselves in the foot by selling those items, no need to make a law to prohibit them. And ultimately for the idiots who happen to buy nazi crap, there's just one remedy I can think of: EDUCATION.

	12-08-2003 09:04									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Verto What about this?

	12-08-2003 09:09									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen 1) first of all, to all those who mindlessly claim communism is even remotely the same as nazism is a total bumbling fool. Whatever Stalinist or soviet perversion of "communism" was adopted does not mean communism had the same rascist and murderous tendencies of nazism. Read a little about communist ideology before spouting nonsense about things you've only learned about in the movies.

Well, I never said anything like this, although I'm sure everyone has interpreted it that way. I said no one would react like they did here, if people had put up the flag of the Soviet Union, which committed just as great of atrocities as Nazi Germany.

	12-08-2003 09:10									#81
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Tass

	12-08-2003 09:17									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Well, I never said anything like this, although I'm sure everyone has interpreted it that way. I said no one would react like they did here, if people had put up the flag of the Soviet Union, which committed just as great of atrocities as Nazi Germany.

And the slaughter of millions of native americans by the spanish? Does that mean we should be similarly outraged? The hammer and sickle like the swaztika represent two political and economic systems. Now read The Communist Manifesto or Lenin's Imperialism, then read Mein Kampf and tell me which one clamours for murder and discrimination.

	12-08-2003 09:29									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen And the slaughter of millions of native americans by the spanish? Does that mean we should be similarly outraged?

This goes back to my original statement: people become so outraged at the Swastika because it has come to represent evil, but are not equally outraged at other symbols, such as the Hammer and Sickle which represents the Soviet Union - not communism. At least, in my eyes

Oh well, each to their own...

	12-08-2003 09:33									#84
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During the Holocaust, gays were often forced to wear the upside-down, pink triangle to distinguish them from other camp inmates.

Contemporary gay society has turned the pink triangle into an affirmative symbol for their own form of expression.

Just an example of an originally offensive symbol used to oppress and exterminate, was turned into something else.

	12-08-2003 09:42									#85
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I wonder how many victims of the camps would embrace the pink triangle. However, I get your point, Mr Fun, it is a case of the class of victims adopting the symbol of oppression as a sign of strength.

When the gypsies, or the menatally disabled, or the Slavs adopt the Nazi Swastika, I will fall silent on the issue. But not before then.

	12-08-2003 17:12									#86
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While I can concede that in Hong Kong some merchant might not know what the swastika stands for, I still believe that it and other Nazi regalia ought to be suppressed. People who use these symbols know what they represent. They are an open call to the hatefilled and the paranoid. Their display is hurtful to many, and not just to Jews, and people who use these symbols know this and use them intentionally.

	13-08-2003 02:11									#87
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Do you have a point here other than displaying what a blithering idiot you are?

My point is that the philosophic implication of the Nazi logos is as nearly as irrelevant in Hong Kong as it is on Alpha friggin' Centauri. Not everyone spends every waking hour learning the history of another continent and how we whiteys genocided each other.

Yes, the ambassadors were right to complain. However, the store's design experts have a perfectly valid excuse for making the mistake.

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither ...the menatally disabled... adopt the Nazi Swastika

* St Leo coughs

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither ... the Slavs adopt the Nazi Swastika, I will fall silent on the issue. But not before then.

Could a Russian poster tell me what Zhirinovski (is he still around?) and those to the right of him use as symbols?

The thing about this is that Slavs or any other group is not a monolithic entity. We are all individuals with our own feelings and associations.

"Burn all your symbols! Male and female, tribal and global. Give up your Fatherlands and your Earth Mothers -- it's Childhood's End! Desecrate your ancestors, screw your cousins -- just do what you think is right because it's right."
- Greg Egan, Mitochondrial Eve

Yay for randomness.:P

	13-08-2003 03:37									#88
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither ...the menatally disabled... adopt the Nazi Swastika

quote: Originally posted by St Leo * St Leo coughs

	13-08-2003 08:56									#89
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I can see how this might be offensive - but no more so than displaying Soviet symbols. To me, in fact, Soviet symbols would be much more offensive.

	13-08-2003 09:34									#90
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo My point is that the philosophic implication of the Nazi logos is as nearly as irrelevant in Hong Kong as it is on Alpha friggin' Centauri. Not everyone spends every waking hour learning the history of another continent and how we whiteys genocided each other. Yes, the ambassadors were right to complain. However, the store's design experts have a perfectly valid excuse for making the mistake.

I guess I responded as I did because I doubted that you had very many Neo-Khans running around your neighbourhood pillaging the local poultry and besieging the odd house.

The Nazis are not done. There are some who think it is a fine ideology to follow. Maybe in a hundred years, maybe...

I have nothing against people from Hong Kong who make a mistake and correct it, although I do note that it is bloody unlikely that anyone who went to school there before a few years ago would be ignorant of the issue. I have everything against people in the West who follow that ideology of hatred, and I have a bit of a problem with people who think it is wrong to call them down.

'They' may well have a right to express themselves by flaunting social customs. I am equally free to call them down and hold them to account for it.