27-08-2003 02:56									#31
	Got spare money?

I didn't mean to make this a big debate or anything, so consider this my last 'contribution' to the discussion on blind vs directed.

1) Yes in the early game it makes little difference what your style is, but as the game progresses, directed makes a builder style much easier compared to the benefit it has on a momentum style.

2) Yes, sometimes you will still trade.

3) That's a matter of preference. I don't think it's either possible or desirable to totally eliminate random factors from the game. A lot of people are going to argue that if one guy gets straight to IA and the other people take longer, then that guy has an edge. I don't think that's necessarily the only way to play a builder. I don't think it's the best way either.

Some players have a tendency to want to optimize the game settings to suit their particular style, naturally. Ideally a builder would be on a medium to large island by themselves with no other factions nearby, directed research, no random events, etc. The reason I prefer the standard rules is because it forms a basis as to the advantages/disadvantages inherent to a given play-style.

Just my thoughts. As I said, I didn't mean to cause any controversy on the issue. I'm sure the CM will set the rules fairly and I intend to enjoy myself no matter what kind of settings I find myself with, and I hope everyone else does too.

~Red

	27-08-2003 08:59									#32
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by TheRedmenace 1) Yes in the early game it makes little difference what your style is, but as the game progresses, directed makes a builder style much easier compared to the benefit it has on a momentum style.

The momentum players are going to get left behind as far as research is concerned if they cannot use their military might early on. I think this is true for both directed and non-directed research. I also think that the less research you have, the harder a wrong tech might affect you (it takes longer to research the right one).

quote: Originally posted by TheRedmenace 3) That's a matter of preference. I don't think it's either possible or desirable to totally eliminate random factors from the game.

I agree. I think there is enough randomness in the game even without blind research.

quote: Originally posted by TheRedmenace Some players have a tendency to want to optimize the game settings to suit their particular style, naturally. Ideally a builder would be on a medium to large island by themselves with no other factions nearby, directed research, no random events, etc. The reason I prefer the standard rules is because it forms a basis as to the advantages/disadvantages inherent to a given play-style.

I usually make only two changes to the standard rules: I choose directed research and iron man. Otherwise I try not to optimize the settings for my play style. I guess I feel directed research is the standard rule, after Civ 1 and 2.

quote: Originally posted by TheRedmenace Just my thoughts. As I said, I didn't mean to cause any controversy on the issue. I'm sure the CM will set the rules fairly and I intend to enjoy myself no matter what kind of settings I find myself with, and I hope everyone else does too.

I'm of course willing to live with the rules we eventually decide on and I certainly hope to have fun with the game.

	27-08-2003 14:36									#33
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I'm up for a game if you are still accepting applicants.

I haven't played for about a year so I may be a bit rusty but I don't mind who I play, or what the rules are.

GMT+0 SMAC or SMAX

and will be playing at around 12:30pm on weekdays (or any other time if the boss isn't looking!)

J

Last edited by FonnParr on 27-08-2003 at 14:53

	28-08-2003 06:00									#34
	SMAC or SMAX Inflate your Upload Space

It has been very hard to get onto Poly these days, so hopefully we can get enough windows of opportunity to finish this setup.

It would be nice to settle the question of whether it is going to be SMAC or SMAX.

In the starting post, USC specified SMAX, and at least one person bowed out after noticing that, although at least one other person is still involved despite only having SMAC. Needless to say, the choice of factions and a good number of other things is dependent on the answer to this.

I would suggest that you settle this and then we can either re-invite the one who left or stop wasting the other one's time.

Meanwhile, I have been working on a map starting with SMAX, but I think it will also work with SMAC, so that shouldn't be a problem. The map I am making is a "Large" size map with average everything. If this is unacceptable, I will need to know that ASAP, as I don't think I can resize the map without losing it altogether. If there is some worry that the builders will have an advantage because they or the warmongers are too isolated, I will undertake to address that in the details (like the extent to which certain landmasses are connected or not and the number of units or the geographic coverage of the AI factions). In other words, I'll try to give momentum players something to work with and the builders something to worry about. Nonetheless, I'll make a different size map if you want, just tell me soon.

	28-08-2003 07:22									#35
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Average everything is fine by me.

No human player should have NO land bridge to someone else. If fact we should all probably be connected by some land at some point.

I am ver happy to have SMAX, but will play with SMAC only if needed.

	28-08-2003 08:46									#36
	Re: SMAC or SMAX Get a bigger avatar today!

I was hoping this would be a SMAX game. If I've counted correctly, I think we already have six SMAX players. Perhaps those wishing to play SMAC might want to start a game of their own?


Anyway, the map sounds fine to me.

	28-08-2003 11:18									#37
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I agree with Minute Mirage. Blinded research kill bright minds, and cause that games randomise. Nobody can start any strategy bacause nobody knows what his scientists are going to discover. Remember, this is strategy game, not rolling a dice.

Radi

	28-08-2003 11:22									#38
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Again I would like to remind You, I dont have smax. This is why i prefer to play SMAC. If you definetely want to play smax, give mi a shout when i can get it.

	28-08-2003 12:24									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Radi I agree with Minute Mirage. Blinded research kill bright minds, and cause that games randomise. Nobody can start any strategy bacause nobody knows what his scientists are going to discover. Remember, this is strategy game, not rolling a dice. Radi

Plans are still executable. It's a question of timing and flexibility.

	28-08-2003 12:59									#40
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UnityScoutChopper,

You called for the game, I think it's your decision - SMAC or SMAX?

Alternatively we can create two games here one SMAC one SMAX, there are at least 7 of us and I'm willing to play both at the same time.

we can use the same map, the same rules, just different factions.

J

	28-08-2003 18:14									#41
	Remove this text

SMAX.

Would rather compromise on blind rather than shrink the map. I like JohnDM's suggestion, but how about this: all players receive two free techs of their choice at the outset.

Happy to compromise on blind faction choice (the original proposal) - I personally will take a random faction, and anyone else is free to join me in this, but all those who have chosen a faction will get theirs, unless there are conflicts.

JDM, deep thanks for the CMN offer.

More answers later -- busy.

USC

	28-08-2003 22:03									#42
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I will take a random faction, smax. Thank you very much.

	29-08-2003 19:24									#43
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Hi all,

After discarding (apologies, Radi!) the SMAC-only player, let me summarize the players' list so far:

USC (N0SPAMerik@sky.cz) - random faction - GMT +1 (Prague/Vienna time, I THINK it's GMT+1)

Minute Mirage (minutemirage@hotmail.com) - prefers University - GMT +2

Comstr (Comstar@optusnet.com.au) - random or PK - GMT +10

Blut0 (xxxblut02000@yahoo.com) - random - GMT -7

FonnParr (email not yet given) - random - GMT+0 - prefers playing at lunchtime on weekdays

Player order still pending, submissions will close entirely after JMD's next reply. Large, blind, average, house rules any fairly standard set of JMD's choice.

Instead of the rather silly anagram of my nick that I originally suggested as the game name, I propose "The Blind Leading the Blind" or "Blind Leaders" for short.

I will take it for granted that nobody here wants to be a stinkin' alien if they take a random faction. :-) And likewise I'll take it for granted that the AI can be alien.

USC

	30-08-2003 01:51									#44
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Errr, I posted my desire to play a while back. Am I steenky or something?


Red Menace

msernatinger@hotmail.com
Faction: whatever


Right?

Right.


So anyway, please add me to the list ASAP.

	30-08-2003 02:08									#45
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quote: Originally posted by TheRedmenace Errr, I posted my desire to play a while back. Am I steenky or something?

You guys have so many people... aren't you worried it will slow the game down? Maybe one of you would like to take me on in a head-to-head SMAX game instead? (Now you see my selfish motive.) Or you can have your 13-player game and play me H2H, too, how about that?

	30-08-2003 04:42									#46
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm game for H2H

	30-08-2003 09:04									#47
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Red M,
I started a new thread for us:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=95820

	30-08-2003 23:42									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

For those of you who are confizzled, I'm still interesetd in playing this game too...

	31-08-2003 13:43									#49
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Just a quick question about the rules: Will crawler upgrading be allowed as in the tournament rules?

	01-09-2003 12:18									#50
	Remove this text

sorry forgot to post my Email Address

jasonjparr@hotmail.com

13 player game now that would take some modding!

With 6 human players, I guess there won't be any aliens on this planet unless anyone WANTS to be an alien!

Last edited by FonnParr on 01-09-2003 at 15:35

	01-09-2003 17:01									#51
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Uh...can we split this up into 3-4 games, SMAC, SMAX and SMAX?

	01-09-2003 22:29									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Comstr Uh...can we split this up into 3-4 games, SMAC, SMAX and SMAX?

That might actually be a good idea. Maybe one SMAX game with directed research, one with blind and then one SMAC game? I wouldn't mind playing in more than one game.

	05-09-2003 02:12									#53
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hello again.

It turned out that I had some trouble with my connection in NY while I was out of town, so I have been out of touch. I have made some reasonable progress on the map, however, and am getting ready to move on to the next phase of the setup.

I'm planning to set up a 6 human player with 1 AI player SMAX game (Transcend, with directed research) on a large map with average everything (more or less - I've added/changed various stuff, so it may not be exactly 'average'). I trust you'all realize that with 6 human players, it would be good if all of you are really committed to playing, as a couple of early dropouts could make it difficult to get started.

As best I could tell, this is the cast (in no particular order):
--USC (N0SPAMerik@sky.cz) - random faction
--Minute Mirage (N0SPAMminutemirage@hotmail.com) - University
--Comstr (N0SPAMComstar@optusnet.com.au) - PK
--Blut0 (N0SPAMblut02000@yahoo.com) - random faction
--FonnParr (N0SPAMjasonjparr@hotmail.com) - random faction
--Red Menace (N0SPAMmsernatinger@hotmail.com) - random faction

I didn't quite under stand the splitting up into 3-4 SMAC, SMAX or SMAX? option, so if you'all don't want the 6 person variety that would need to be made clear ASAP. Regarding the crawler upgrades, nearly all the games I'm aware of allow crawler upgrades (via the Design Workshop) and 'cashing in' to build SP's or whatever in the same turn (as opposed to the usual disallowing of upgrade and attack for military units).

I said 'Directed Research' instead of 'Blind Research' with free Centauri Ecology, cause I gathered that everyone really wanted it that way, all the talk about "Blind Research' notwithstanding (I got the impression that I was actually the one seemingly to pushing it rather than any of you, the players), but if that's incorrect, please let me know and I'd be happy to go with Blind; let me know.

Please let me know if I have something wrong with the players or the factions specified (or not), or if ther are any changes to the faction selections (or non selections). Minute Mirage, please send me your free tech choice here (or post it if you don't care whether the other players know). Anyone with a favorite password they want installed, please email me with that too (or post it if you don't care whether the other players know ), otherwise I will make them up myself. If I can think up a turn order that seems to make sense geographically, I will.

I've gotten behind on a few other things due to my connection problems last weekend, but I hope to get this mostly done by the end of this weekend and playtest it somewhat to make sure it is reasonably balanced in the day or two following, so I'm hoping to get it to you by next Wednesday.

	05-09-2003 03:11									#54
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Looks good, I'm itching to play. Count me in.

	05-09-2003 15:11									#55
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To help JDM with the play order maybe we should all say when we are most likely to play.

For me this is 1200 to 1330 GMT.

	05-09-2003 15:18									#56
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Lets see, ah, 6pm GMT+10 so that makes it, ah, 4am GMT I think.

	05-09-2003 17:21									#57
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm likely to be able to play somewhere between 1500 and 2100 GMT.

	05-09-2003 21:58									#58
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1500 GMT for me.

	08-09-2003 01:56									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

1800 GMT is about right for me, I theenk. Honestly I check my mail so much it'll be just about any time OK, bearing in mind that I'm GMT -6.

So of course I AM SO IN!

	12-09-2003 00:21									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Well, I found this site on google - being a fan of Alpha Centauri I quickly wanted to play human players (I am slightly good so far). However I only have Alpha Centauri and not Alien Crossfire...

I also live in Singapore (+8 GMT) but I suppose I could stay up. Also I have no idea you could play by PBEM....

Oh I probably like abundant alien life forms (its good for both Gaians and Morganites in my opinion, good military and a nice reward from the planetpearls) but I will accept normal.

There are special tournament rules? And whats wrong with crawler upgrading?