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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:30
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The 7.92 mm x57 (also known as 8mm x 57) Mauser cartridge was developed in the 19th century for a number of German made and/or licensed military rifles, and it was used through the Korean war period in a number of armies. It's still made and used for a sporting weapon.
It was designed for bolt action rifles, not automatic weapons, so it's optimization is for long range accuracy and hitting power, not for recoil and ease of feed. In and before WW2, the Germans built their air and ground mounted standard machine guns around the same round issued for their rifles because it was logistically simpler to standardize on the ammo type in use, not because it was ballistically ideal.
With automatic weapons, the extra length of the round (the x 57 refers to the cartridge length) means extra travel length for the ejector and bolt assembly, more vibration, and more possibility of a misfeed in a weapon not ideally maintained. The MG34 had a lot of these problems, and was rather underperforming as a result, and it was a ***** to maintain in the field due to a bit of good ol' German overengineering. The Germans had no effective way of changing the ammo, so they took their field experience from the early war and redesigned the MG34 to make it simpler to maintain in the field, and to improve on a number of weaknesses discovered from heavy use. The result was the MG42, which was without doubt the best machine gun of WW2 and the best man-portable weapon built until that time.
After the war, when NATO was formed, one of the issues they faced was that most of the member armies used their own weapons with their own unique ammo types, which was logistics hell from a joint planning perspective. One of NATO's early projects was standardization of ammo types among the membership, while the component nations would still be free to develop and field their own national weapons.
The NATO members (including West Germany, of course) all knew about the superior performance of the MG42 with the less than ideal 7.92 Mauser round, so they wanted something with similar net performance by taking advantage of up to date powder and primer technology, but more suitable to semiautomatic rifle and medium machine gun use. The end result was the slightly smaller, slightly shorter NATO 7.62mm x 51 round which is still in massive worldwide use and production today.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:30
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I might have got the idea of NCO wrong and claimed I was one. I'm not sure what you call them. We have only three things. Regular soldiers, then the other guys that lead them, corporals and sgts, and then we have officers. Lower ranks salute higher ranks at all times.
THe unwritten rule is because you see this guy everyday for a pretty long time and you know these guys maybe even from civ life. So what's the point of him saluting you or the other way 150 times a day? Depends on the guy, some demand that, some don't. No one is allowed to NOT salute by default though.
I don't know what's E-4 etc. We have only few ranks. These days it's regular soldier, lance corporal, corporal, sergeant and in real world the next step is being officer.
Corporals and sgts leads the regular soldiers and are the ones really running the show  . Between the guys and officers. Though in here officers are not pansies giving orders, they come too. But still they deal with us, and we deal with the men. We are responsible back to officers how it then goes.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:30
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Reluctantly salute them? Well, they take the lead in the field, the the crap from the officers, teach the guys how to do it, are directly responsible for the results, execute the plans, and run the show on the field. They take the guys to everywhere, run and are responsible for the daily program, do the reporting of everything concerning the unit to few officers, are responsible that the needs of men are fullfilled. And they have an individual responsibility in the show, depending what they specialized in. They're the one responsible that the bigger plans made by officers actually works in the field, modificating it at all times and being prepared for anything starting from where we get the food from and when to how the close defense is set up. Being responsible that all material is packed and ready to keeping every man informed what their individual job is.
It's a damn huge job, and after all of it, they are responsible for combat duties in group level, taking the guys forward going first himself. We wake the guys up meaning we wake up first, we make them go to sleep, going sleep the last. It is our duty and job to be close with the guys, one of them, and know what they like to do on their free time and personal stuff. It's our duty to help them with all problems that might occur starting from inner problems and bad blood to making sure every single individual is ok mentally and physically. But we also have to be the ones communicating with officers, because they are our first bosses.
We are the ones that are responsible first when team ****s up. It doesn't matter who screwed up in the team, all that matters is that team failed, and we lead the teams, so we failed, and are responsible for the consequences. We are the ones who has to order the crappy things that know one wants to do because that's the plan, and do it, and report back when it's done, and be ready for a new job.
We are the first thing new private sees when he enters the gates, and the last thing they see when they leave.
The first thing when they wake up, and the last thing when the go to sleep. We are there 24/7, ready for anything at all times. Everyone brings their crap to us, officers and then the men.
We are supposed to know everything that the men are about to know, since we teach them ourselves. From how to walk and dress to how to shoot, and how to do combat, to how to use communication systems to survival etc.. everything. There should be no question from the men that YOU can't answer concering equipment, there usage and everything there is to it.
You are as good as your men are. That means, if they don't fully understand and learn what you teach, then you are not a good teacher. So it is your job to help the ones that are bit slower. It's not like you have any free time.
Our most important job is to show example, to be a role model to them in there that they should try to be. We are supposed to be the best in amongst them, score top points in every field and test. If we can't do that, then we can't expect the men to do that either. We are supposed to inspire them for better scores and prepare them. We are supposed to motivate them at all times when motivation is gone, so it's not like we can say '**** it I don't want to do this'. And that is NOT an easy thing to do when everyone is dead tired and ready to punch you if you have any more jobs to be done. Sometimes you have to be an ******* to motivate, and sometimes you can reward. Use stick and carrot. And at the same time you have to sleep with them in the same tent and feel comfortable falling asleep. You have to earn their respect, so no one tries to defy you, so you can have your ways and score top points everywhere, anytime.
If you don't YOU fail.
So I don't see any reasons why they can't be saluted as well.
so I don't know if this is what NCOs do in the US. But if they do the same thing, I don't understand why someone has problems saluting.
Last edited by Pekka on 27-08-2003 at 07:51
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Bereta_Eder
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army is nice. you learn to appreciate democracy. things you take for granted in the outside world. you get to shoot guns which is also nice. you eat regularly, morning, noon, evening which is great. you get in shape which is also nice. you get the respect of your community automatically especially if youre in a country which has some beef withsomeone, which youre from israel it has.
generally army pretty cool. you get long lasting friendships too from all the **** you've been through together,
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
MtG, last time I fired a Mauser rifle, it was 6.5 mm.
The assault rifles and machine guns we had when I was in the military was 7.62 mm, but they were converted from 6.5 mm. Nowadays I think the standard ammo in Sweden is 5.56 mm for both assault rifles and machine guns. |
Yeah, a friend of mine a while ago had one - 6.5 x 55. His was a before WW2 issue weapon for the Norwegian Army, and was a Oberndorf factory made Model 96 turned into a model 96-38 conversion (originally Model 96 built in 1899, with the barrel cut down five inches in the 1938 rearmament). The slightly lighter round and a hot powder load gave it excellent range, but at least on my friend's piece, lateral barrel warpage from overheating caused a consistent drift to the right of about 30 cm at 500 meters for every round fired unless you kept the firing rate down to about 1.5 rounds per minute, max.
Mauser produced several calibers for military rifles, including the original 10.95mm model 1871, 7.65mm in the models 1890 and 1893 (and the much later model 1909 "Argentine" Mauser which was actually made in Berlin, but sold to the Argentine army), 7.92mm in the model 1898 and Turkish Mausers (some with German made actions, some all Turkish). The 6.5mm x55 round was introduced in the model 1894 "Spanish" Mauser, but first appeared en mass in the Carl Gustav factory built Model 96, model 96-38 and later Husqvarna built model 38 Swedish Mausers. (The German Mauser factories also got orders to produce these for Sweden)
6.5 mm was an existing high-powered hunting round, and there's a huge number of different round types, but the 6.5 x 55 is unique to the model 1894 "Spanish" Mauser, the model 1899 German Mauser and it's licensed Swedish built and German built to Swedish standard variants.
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Guardian
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Bergen, Norway
Feb 2001
time: 06:30
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
army is nice. you learn to appreciate democracy. things you take for granted in the outside world. you get to shoot guns which is also nice. you eat regularly, morning, noon, evening which is great. you get in shape which is also nice. you get the respect of your community automatically especially if youre in a country which has some beef withsomeone, which youre from israel it has.
generally army pretty cool. you get long lasting friendships too from all the **** you've been through together, |
You know, you really don't need to "have some beef with someone" to experience the friendships and hardships that come with the uniform (-though I suppose it doesn't hurt...). No matter who you are and where you are, you and your fellow soldiers will go through a lot of **** together and build lasting friendships. You don't have to be in or even close to a real war for that to happen. Even in peacetime, we fight little "wars" together every day and win small but usually bloodless victories. There's damned near nothing a good soldier won't do for the other guys in his squad - and there's damned near nothing they won't do for him. This is the real strength of an army. Weapons, equipment and supplies can only get you so far if you don't have this one, single most important thing.
You know... when we're out there in the field somewhere, I'm there with my MG3 in position to cover my squadmates. I'm watching their every move and I'm watching everything around us...
...quite often, I'll find myself thinking something like, "These are my people. -And God help you if you try to hurt any of them!"
This is the real strength of an army.
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26-08-2003 17:10
those Leopard 2 tanks are the hot news here today.
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