26-08-2003 05:57									#61
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death gate cycle was surprisingly good

Jon Miller

	26-08-2003 05:58									#62
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quote: I hated the Wheel of Time series. I think Robert Jordan is a talentless hack and that his books are full of bad writing, cardboard characters and boring, predictable plot situations. So if it's like Jordan, I won't like it.

... depends on how far you got in the series... books 1-3 were wooden and ill written... but book 5, I believe, is perhaps the greatest fantasy book EVER written- the political machinations, etc. were all amazing.

books 7-8 however relied too much on the oft-overdone 'kidnapping-line'

It really is worth the effort to plow through books 1-4 to get to book 5.

(Personally I hated all the characters until book 3, when I started respecting one or two.. .by book 5 I had narrowed my hate down to Nynaeve and Egwene ... Jordan starts actually making the caracters likeable later...)

---
As for a good series- I would recommend Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman's Death Gate Cycle of (9 books I think? it may have only been 7...) after you read the first two books, it's well worth it... the problem with the Death Gate series is that you really don't know what's going on unitl you've read a few books.

Sadly, too many works of fantasy literature are like this.

--
I would also like to recommend taht you read my book when it is finally sold and released- if you give me your email, I'll put you on my mailing list

	26-08-2003 06:00									#63
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Feist's Riftwar Saga, which I just finished reading again.

The Seer King, Demon King, Warrior King by Chris Bunch

The Nightrunner series by Lynn Flewelling. The two main characters are homosexual, not that it should matter, but it was an interesting twist.

ACK!

	26-08-2003 06:05									#64
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Ick. Earthsea and Ursula K. Le Guin are books that I will burn... I've read 3 of her short stories... hated them all. I read "The Tombs of Atuan"... hated it. I started "Earthsea" hated it.

Nothing happens. It's just crap. Don't read it.
It's not epic fantasy- heck it's not even Belgarath the Sorceror (by David and Leigh Eddings) [A series I only understood after reading the Belgarath and Polgara and Rivan Codex supplemental books ... and when I read I make charts of characters, etc... so the plotting had to be extreemly boring or dense in the other books for me not to enjoy them- but I REALLY recommend Belgarath and Polgara if not the series themselves... but then again I like history tomes- I know many people who hated them because they read like history books

quote: The Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser series by Fritz Leiber

It was innovative in its day but it's really canned today- I've read about 12 of their stories... only one was interesting... "The Bleak Shore" was one of the more tedious works

Ick. Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever... the leper... ick. Although I have been told that if I had read past the first 100 pages, It would have paid off- but I frankly had it by page 40, when he wouldn't stop whining that he was a leper for 30 PAGES MORE! and the girl wouldn't stop wining that YOURE THE SAVIOR... That was so very boring...
If you hated Jordan, you'd hate Donaldson.

---
I read a lot but reflecting on it... I seem to hate a lot of what I read

	26-08-2003 06:06									#65
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quote: The Nightrunner series by Lynn Flewelling. The two main characters are homosexual, not that it should matter, but it was an interesting twist.

Margaret Weis's new book "Mistress of Dragons" has too lesbians... if you're into that sort of stuff.

I'd also recommend Turtledove's Legions in Time- I don't seem to like many fanatasies, but that and the "Fox and Empire" series are amazing!

Magic and a dimensional portaled Roman legion... how fun can that be!

	26-08-2003 06:10									#66
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Gene Wolfe is very good

Jon Miller

	26-08-2003 06:11									#67
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there is a series about Ash which is pretty decent also

Jon Miller

	26-08-2003 06:17									#68
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quote: Okay, when I say series, I do want to avoid the endless stream of books, a la Jordan. I think one of the things that sucks most about Jordan is that he is stretching out a story that could have been told in 3 books (or less) into a 12-book saga that he may not finish before he dies. The needless padding and frustrating go-nowhereness of his books are a big part of the problem.

he meant the series to be 6 books... but then it became 8... now he's limited it to 12...

I found it really annoying that he keeps bringing back the forsaken and can agree with you about the stretches- I think he should have tried to fit it in 11, since in book 9 (Winters Fire) he could have probably combined it with book 10... since Faile isn't even recovered until book 10 (I am led to beleive- still haven't got my hands on Crossroads of Dust... or whatever it's called ) all Rand does in 9 is clean the source! and only one forsaken is killed.

--
David Farland... but he drags things out too long. Book 2 takes place over a ****ing week for heavens sake! He keeps playing on the interaction between Gebeorn and that other guy for too long- the other guy should be more decisive and Gebeorn is too loving- it's almost not believeable- it's almost too fabricable... and just how many millions of people live in his world!!!

But that being said, I do enjoy his books... don't own any though

--
Terry prachett- if you like humor, read his most recent books- you don't need to know the series to enjoy them.
-
George R.R. Martin. Good writing. Very good writing. I recommend his stuff in "Legends" as well. You can sample a wide range of authors in the "Legends" book. (It's a compilation of short stories based in their fantasy worlds)... it's what brought me to Goodkind and Martin.

	26-08-2003 06:19									#69
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series about Ash? Do you mean Margarat Weis's Darksword trilogy? or the evil dead trilogy?

I also recommend Robert Asprins MYTH INC. Series for good fantasy humor... but avoid Craig Shaw Gardner like the plague! He writes for 9 year olds!

	26-08-2003 06:26									#70
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ash

as in the series by mary gentle

haven't read all of it, decent (own the first)

Jon Miller

	26-08-2003 06:30									#71
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hmm

fantasy scifi books I own (not all of them good)

tad williams otherland book 4
bujold warrior apprentice
infinity beach
doomsday book
blacksun rising
the madness season

crap, I don't feel like doing this there are a lot (CS freidman can be goos also)

Jon Miller

	26-08-2003 06:33									#72
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Oh, Is Gentle's "Grunts" worth the reading? Is it amusing? Like prachett? or stupid... like Gardner?

Fantasy Scifi... you mean cross-genre?

Have you tried Timothy Zahn's "Triplet" Its about a magical world trapped inside a sci-fi world... its strange. A little boring and tedious, but it's wonderousness makes it worth a read- just not worht owning

	26-08-2003 06:35									#73
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Oh yes also, watch out for andre norton+otherauthor... the majority of her compilations in the time traders series have been crap of late!

And personally, I couldn't stand Mercedes Lackey+other author's little novels about the Sidhe... so overwritten, so overused, so tiresome, so trite...

	26-08-2003 06:39									#74
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Margaret Weis's new book "Mistress of Dragons" has too lesbians... if you're into that sort of stuff. I'd also recommend Turtledove's Legions in Time- I don't seem to like many fanatasies, but that and the "Fox and Empire" series are amazing! Magic and a dimensional portaled Roman legion... how fun can that be!

Legions in Time was one of my favorite series, haven't found them anywhere for a long time.

ACK!

	26-08-2003 06:49									#75
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I mean scifi and fantasy

I probably should just maybe put down my favorites

the doomsday book is very good (from the above very short list)

Jon Miller

	26-08-2003 06:50									#76
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soldier ask not was good

Jon Miller

	26-08-2003 06:51									#77
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crap still too many

why don't others just postbooks and I will chime in what I think aoutthiem

jon Miller

	26-08-2003 08:14									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I mean scifi and fantasy I probably should just maybe put down my favorites the doomsday book is very good (from the above very short list) Jon Miller

Was Doomsday Book hard for you to get into?

I've tried to read it several times and haven't been able to get into it.

ACK!

	26-08-2003 09:18									#79
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a little

not too bad though

I have found that I read fast enough taht it is easy for me to get into books tohugh


JNon Miller

	26-08-2003 09:58									#80
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I strongly recommend The Lions of Al-Rassan by Guy Gavriel Kay. The overall plot is compelling and the writing is superb. He's probably one of the best fantasy prose writers around.

	26-08-2003 11:06									#81
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Someone (Wraith, I think) suggested Jack Vance's Dying Earth series, and I concur. It's got four volumes, only two of which are connected. The common thing about the volumes are the setting - Earth at the end of it's life, when the sun is bloated and red and magic has returned. the four books of the series are The Dying Earth, a collection of stories, Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga, which are parts one and two of a long tale, and Rhialto the Marvellous, which discusses the wizards of the era. Eyes of the Overworld is my favorite of the bunch, and one of my favorite books EVER (rather dark, but brilliant).

Vance also produced a trilogy called Lyonesse. The first book is Suldrun's Garden, the second is The Green Pearl, and the third is Madouc. Like all Vance, the series is absolutely wonderful.

	26-08-2003 11:10									#82
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Check out american gods, it's an amazing ride with a killer ending. Great characters too.

And if you call me a pseudo-intellectual, GP, I'm going to make you wish you learned camo-training.

	26-08-2003 15:57									#83
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GP thinks Elftor is pseudo-intellectual too so don't you worry

	26-08-2003 18:12									#84
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud I am led to beleive- still haven't got my hands on Crossroads of Dust... or whatever it's called )

It is Crossroads of Twilight, DarkCloud.

Asmodean

	26-08-2003 18:23									#85
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I'd definitely recommend the Deathsgate Cycle by Weiss & Hickman.

I liked the Belgariad (Eddings), and even though it's kinda predictable, I liked the characters enough to read the Mallorean too. I'd say check out the Belgariad and only go on to the Mallorean if you really liked it.

Tad Williams was good. Not all that memorable, but I do recall enjoying it.

Robin Hobb is good too. There's the Assassins series (and I think she's starting up another set of those), and also the Liveship Traders series. Kinda different, which is of course, good.

Steven (sp?) Brust is good too. I like his sense of humor.

A could not agree more about R. Jordan. I fart in his general direction.

-Arrian

	26-08-2003 18:25									#86
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quote: The Lions of Al-Rassan by Guy Gavriel Kay

Oh, yeah, I remember that one (didn't he write another one, too?). Pretty good.

-Arrian

	26-08-2003 18:29									#87
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Just in case you missed my lonely little post:

Read Transformation by Carol Berg

http://www.sff.net/people/carolberg/

Seriously, this is one of the best books I have read in a long time (it is the first of 3). Check it out.

quote: Seyonne is a man waiting to die. He has been a slave for sixteen years, almost half his life, and has lost everything of meaning to him: his dignity, the people and homeland he loves, and the Warden's power he used to defend an unsuspecting world from the ravages of demons. Seyonne has made peace with his fate. With strict self-discipline he forces himself to exist only in the present moment and to avoid the pain of hope or caring about anyone. But from the moment he is sold to the arrogant, careless Prince Aleksander, the heir to the Derzhi Empire, Seyonne's uneasy peace begins to crumble. And when he discovers a demon lurking in the Derzhi court, he must find hope and strength in a most unlikely place...

	26-08-2003 18:59									#88
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I have to start by confessing I haven't found a Fantasy author I like in at least the last ten years, so any comments are on more "classic" works.

R E Howard - excellent for a rainy Sunday afternoon. The Conan stories are amongst his best work but some of the collections of short stories are also very good. He packs more into a short story than many authors can manage in a trilogy.

Tolkein - "The Silmarillion" is worth a read if you can accept the style. It does help make sense of LoTR and reading LoTR again afterwards was richer for it.

Gemmell - The early books are the best. Legend and Waylander, possibly Morningstar. After that he drifted into repetition and pointless sequels with too much detail and not enough action.

Michael Moorcock - I have always liked his writings. The Elric and the Eternal Champion series are the best. I particularly liked "The Wierd of the White Wolf" volume (possibly published with a different title in the USA)

Not a series but a classic - "The Worm Ouroboros" by Eddison. Heavy going at first but worth it.

If you are into fantasy writing I would also suggest reading translations of one or two of the norse sagas (published in the UK as Penguin Classics). Egil's Saga is particularly easy to read and gives a flavour of what living a fantasy novel might really be like. My favourite book and the one I would take if stranded on a desert island!

Final suggestion - more horror than fantasy but the works of William Hope Hodgson are interesting. The Carnacki ghost stories are good for evoking an uneasy sense of fear (best not read after dark if you are of a nervous disposition). The House on the Borderland is interesting because you can follow his development as an author in just that one volume.

My two pence worth.

	27-08-2003 01:19									#89
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quote: Oh, yeah, I remember that one (didn't he write another one, too?). Pretty good.

Kay wrote other books indeed. I named two in my above post: Tigana is Italy where Al-Rassan was Spain (or, better said, Al Andalus), and A Song for Arbonne is Provence. There is also the Mosaics of Sarance (not sure of the exact title) which refers to Byzantium and is a little jewel.
He also wrote a series called Fionnavar's something (tapisserie in French, don't know the original title: carpet?) which is more classical fantasy.

	27-08-2003 01:41									#90
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Oh, it was Tigana I was thinking of. I must have missed it in your post.

Mosaics of Sarance, eh? I may have to go looking for that one.

quote: He also wrote a series called Fionnavar's something (tapisserie in French, don't know the original title: carpet?) which is more classical fantasy.

Tapestry. Come to think of it, I believe I read that too.

-Arrian