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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:30
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quote:
Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
which we can deny him. |
Just try 
quote:
Originally posted by HongHu
How do you know it is true that you exist? You think that you exist, but you may be simply a fictitious character in a made up world. You think you see things, hear things and feel things, but maybe it is just some electrical current or something similar that makes you to feel that way. How could one be sure of anything? |
If I am a ficticious character, then I still exist in my world, as that is all I am aware of. Whether or not I exist as an absolute is not the issue. I live in my world, as we all do. If we did not exist, from our point of view, we would not be able to comprehend that we did not exist. It is not possible for you to not exist when talking from your point of view. If I am just an electrical current, then I still exist, as I exist in my world. An etherreal spirit still exists in its own world, even if it has no coporeal body.
quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
Drogue, even if you have lots of evidence of a certain phenomenon, you can never be a 100% sure something is "true". One can only work from the empirical data one has and make reasonable assumptions from that. But you can never be absolutely sure evidence to the contrary will appear. So it will always stay a belief. Absolute truths will never be known. |
Well, I talk in practicalities. I exist. I am here, I can feel myself, therefore there is no existance that I could be aware of when I do not exist. If in absolute terms I do not exist, that is different, since I would not be aware of that. So to me, from my point of view, I know I exist, else I would not be able to think that. I did not make an absolute, I wrote from my point of view.
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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:30
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That is not what I meant HongHu. What I meant was that I must exist to me. It is not possible for me to not exist but to be aware that I do not exist, as even soemthing that does not exist absolutely, must exist if it can be aware of it. I cannot make someone else exist, so whetehr I think of it or not, I cannot 'create' a God, however I must exist to be aware of my existance.
Last edited by Drogue on 04-09-2003 at 04:40
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:30
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Drogue:
quote:
Well, I talk in practicalities. I exist. I am here, I can feel myself, therefore there is no existance that I could be aware of when I do not exist. If in absolute terms I do not exist, that is different, since I would not be aware of that. So to me, from my point of view, I know I exist, else I would not be able to think that. I did not make an absolute, I wrote from my point of view. |
Well unlike HongHu I wasn't really responding to your quote that you know it to be true that you exist. I was rather responding to your claim that you know the existence of GooglieGod, something external of you, to be true.
As for your quote that you know sure of yourself to exist, well I can't really think of anything to refute IIRC Descartes' argument in your last post. We simply know too little about human consciousness to have more than a purely speculative philosophical discussion about it. However there are many well-accepted psychological theories of human development that say consciousness is formed by interacting with other humans and with the outer world. So since, when believing those theories, consciousness could not exist without the outer world, and since I guess we can't know for sure whether or not the outer world exists... you get the picture. j/k
Corellion:
You explain very well what I believe!  Value-neutral or paradigma-free knowledge of reality is probably impossible. You can only be a 100% sure of something if you set certain base axioms yourself. But you can't know 100% sure if those axioms, upon which you base your scientific theories, have a good relation to reality.
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:30
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It's just an alternative system of measuring angles, like there also is the 400° system for example. In the 2*Pi system, a 180° angle is Pi, a straight 90° angle Pi/2 etcetera... From IIRC fifth class of secondary school, we mostly used that system. It's very handy when working with circles, as then the circumference of a circle is 2*Pi*r, and the angle 2*Pi. 
Edit: So 6,283185307 does not equal 360, but 6,283185307 does equal 360 degrees.
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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:30
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quote:
Originally posted by HongHu
Wow that is very philosophical. So according to your logic, I can be sure that I exist because if I do not exist I wouldn't have been aware of my existance. However following the logic I cannot be sure that anything else exists, for only they themselves would be able to verify that they exist if they are able to be aware of their existance. What a pity that nobody could be sure if a tree exists because the tree itself cannot think and thus cannot verify that it exists. |
Yes you can. I am looking in the context of my world. If I can touch a tree, then I can be sure than it my world, it exists, sinc eit has affected something. To use Corellions well put idea as a base, my world is where the axioms are what I know them to be, such as 2 parallel lines not meeting. Whether or not this is true for some other dimension, or someone elses world, is irrelevant to me. In my world, they can not meet. To varify it's existance to me, it must affect me. Think of your world being everything you perceive. We may all see different things. I may see blue when you see green, but because I was taught that that object was green, we both call it green, even though we may see different things. What it is absolutely has no relevance, what it looks like to me, and to you, does to ourselves respectively. If I drop this glass, I know it will hit the floor. The floor may not exist, and it may just smash in mid air, going upwards, in absolute terms, but in terms of my world, it hits the floor. Imagine time. We perceive it linearly. It may all be decided, and there be a stationary point in time, a 5th dimension, where time is how we see space, and one can move freely in it. However since we do not know of that stationary point, it does not exist in our worlds. Whether it may exist absolutely or not is not the point. As they said in the matrix, if you cannot wake up, how could you tell it was a dream? We do not know we are not all dreaming, but that does not make this world any less real to us, whether it exists simply in our minds or in physical form. A long widned way of explainign it, but I'm tired and not feeling concise (sorry) 
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Corellion
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Kingston, Canada
Sep 2002
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
 So much for the logical CyCon
(180° perhaps?)
-Jam |
No, pi. More specifically, pi radians, but because radians are equal to metres per metre, they cancel out. Angle is a unitless measure.
But, to use a more archaic measurement system, yes, that is also correct.
edit: Eep. I posted this before seeing all the replies. Others have explained it very well, but I usually omit the word 'radian(s)' because it's redundant and superfluous.
edit2: Speaking of redundant and superfluous, did I really need to use both words?
Last edited by Corellion on 04-09-2003 at 09:10
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03-09-2003 20:49
One in his location and one in his signature. Sounds like a prime function is really a hot position in CyCon. 
How do you know it is true what you see? You think that you see two prime functions, but you may see simply fictitious characters in a made up world. You think you see things, but maybe it is just some electrical current or something similar that makes you to feel that way. How could one be sure of anything?
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