05-09-2003 00:21									#31
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I never buy upgrades. I buy full versions. I have just had too many bad experiences with upgrades.

Asmodean

	05-09-2003 00:22									#32
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quote: Why Do Geeks Get All Irate About Microsoft?

Maybe it's in the name; Microsoft? Hits a little to close to home?

	05-09-2003 00:24									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Maybe it's in the name; Microsoft? Hits a little to close to home?

	05-09-2003 00:24									#34
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LOL at Japher.



Asmodean

	05-09-2003 01:03									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Naw, geeks hate MS because Gates is the ubergeek, and everyone else is just jealous...

	05-09-2003 01:19									#36
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quote: Microsoft

Windows causes impotence??

	05-09-2003 01:28									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Microsoft is hated widely by geeks for any of the following reasons, usually: 1) They tried and didn't get hired by MS 2) They're open source zealots 3) Personal jealousy of Bill Gates 4) Communist (redundant with #2 ) 5) They're fundamentally pretty slow geeks, because they honestly believe having lots of OSes is somehow good for the consumer. Either way you look at it, they're always fun to bug. Most of them tend to be lowly network technicians or something else that has the same stature as a gas jockey in the computer world.

Hey!!!

	05-09-2003 01:48									#38
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There's Geeks that hate Microsoft, then there's geeks who worship them.
I personally coudnt give a damn when (or more if) thier programs work.

If they did the Big brother plans on our PC's tho, i would have a problem.

	05-09-2003 02:13									#39
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Microsoft is a godsend for the mainstream PC user (who is mostly computer-illiterate).. except for the occasional stability issues.

However, MS suppresses competition and thus in some ways slows innovation and new idea/concepts.

just my 2 cents

	05-09-2003 03:40									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I would disagree, seeing as I've disposes of them on my XP Pro installation a lonnng time ago. Most Windows users appreciate being treated like they don't know what they're doing. Because, well, they don't.

It's not Windows I have a problem with; I've never used anything else. I hate the omnipresence of Word, Excel, Internet Explorer, etc. Every school seems to insist that projects be done on MS programs I hate, and there's no way to make Word like Wordperfect, for example. I like Wordperfect. The font selections are wider and better, things are more intuitive for me, the toolbar isn't so godawful cluttered, it doesn't do so much crap without your permission...but no, Word is everywhere so all files must be saved as Word files. Internet explorer is too frigging aggressive too. I don't want to use my browser to look at every file. I want to use image editors when I open an image, not IE. Even though I'm on Mozilla now, which is faster and offers better features, I still don't know how to tell it to go 'way and let me use a useful program to open files.
I feel much the same way about those stupid PDF files. Acrobat takes forever to load. Why can't those files be in some kind of word processor format?

	05-09-2003 03:46									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Elok I hate the omnipresence of Word, Excel, Internet Explorer, etc. Every school seems to insist that projects be done on MS programs I hate, and there's no way to make Word like Wordperfect, for example. I like Wordperfect. The font selections are wider and better, things are more intuitive for me, the toolbar isn't so godawful cluttered, it doesn't do so much crap without your permission...but no, Word is everywhere so all files must be saved as Word files.

Use OpenOffice. It has no problem to read and write Word and Excel formats, is way less vulnerable and it's free.

	05-09-2003 03:47									#42
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Elok: It sounds to me like you haven't a clue how to customize Word. And if Mozilla is genuinely faster on your Windows machine, you're in a league of your own. Mozilla takes way longer to start up. Even on my 800, the only speed difference I notice between any browsers is the startup time. Even with turbo mode, Mozilla is ass-slow. Firebird, Opera, and IE are all good...

Sir Ralph: Not to mention slower, buggier, and uglier.

	05-09-2003 03:53									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Sir Ralph: Not to mention slower, buggier, and uglier.

slower: Granted, loads slower, since the MS OS preloads "own" libs and keeps them in memory.

buggier: There's hardly anything buggier than Word.

uglier: To look good is the most important feature of a word processor. And that paper clip was plain gorgeous!

	05-09-2003 03:55									#44
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I do know how to customize it, mostly. I haven't figured out how to get it to make lists without switching numeral form halfway through for no bloody reason, I can't get rid of the stupid web integration, and there are a few other things, but I know how to solve some of its problems, like turning off the autocorrector and thinning out the toolbar some. I could probably download better fonts from somewhere but I see no reason to bother, since it's frigging everywhere and every lab I operate in has the default settings, so it's still a pain in the arse. Besides, why should I have to take any time telling one program to behave when there's another available that does things exactly how I like them?

	05-09-2003 03:56									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph slower: Granted, loads slower, since the MS OS preloads "own" libs and keeps them in memory.

I've turned that off, and it's still WAY slower.

quote: buggier: There's hardly anything buggier than Word.

But Open Office manages it spectacularly.
I've not had much problems with Word being buggy really. OpenOffice crashed on me quite a few times in the very little I used it while in Linux, I can't recall the last time Word crashed...

quote: uglier: To look good is the most important feature of a word processor. And that paper clip was plain gorgeous!

Nice, clean, responsive UIs that aren't an eyesore are a very good thing to look for when you're spending 20 hours straight typing papers.

Then again, the people who use and develop OpenOffice have already shown how much they care for user friendliness and appearance. Geeks making software for geeks.

	05-09-2003 03:59									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Use OpenOffice. It has no problem to read and write Word and Excel formats, is way less vulnerable and it's free.

Wrong. I've had ungodly trouble with compatability issues in the syslab at my school. Things like charts don't show up, and the text gets all screwed up.

	05-09-2003 04:00									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Elok I haven't figured out how to get it to make lists without switching numeral form halfway through for no bloody reason

"Switching numeral form"?

quote: I can't get rid of the stupid web integration

Web integration?

quote: I could probably download better fonts from somewhere but I see no reason to bother, since it's frigging everywhere and every lab I operate in has the default settings, so it's still a pain in the arse.

Both WordPerfect and Word use the /Fonts directory in your Windows install to populate the font lists...Maybe WordPerfect comes with a bunch of fonts now, but I'd be interested in knowing the names of those you like.

quote: Besides, why should I have to take any time telling one program to behave when there's another available that does things exactly how I like them?

It's probably because you're just used to WordPerfect. The last WordPerfect version I liked was 5.0.

	05-09-2003 04:04									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I've not had much problems with Word being buggy really. OpenOffice crashed on me quite a few times in the very little I used it while in Linux, I can't recall the last time Word crashed...

My Word at work crashes regularly. At least twice a week. It freezes for minutes, because it can't locate its fonts in the ass-slow Windows 2000 network. Same thing when saving. Pretends it can't save, because the file already exists, although it does not.

But to call Word cheap crap would be wrong. It's expensive crap.

I don't use OpenOffice under Linux, because I just plain hate X. I use it under XP and it runs fine.

quote: Nice, clean, responsive UIs that aren't an eyesore are a very good thing to look for when you're spending 20 hours straight typing papers.

The bloated, cluttered Word a nice, clean, responsive UI?

	05-09-2003 04:06									#49
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quote: The bloated, cluttered Word a nice, clean, responsive UI?

What bloated, cluttered Word?

	05-09-2003 04:07									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph My Word at work crashes regularly. At least twice a week. It freezes for minutes, because it can't locate its fonts in the ass-slow Windows 2000 network.

Slow network isn't Word's fault, but poor design of your network.

quote: The bloated, cluttered Word a nice, clean, responsive UI?

My Word ain't cluttered at all, and it's certainly nice, clean, and responsive.

	05-09-2003 04:10									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Slow network isn't Word's fault, but poor design of your network.

I grant you this one. Not Word's fault, but a design flaw. They shouldn't have taken Windows 2000. Windows and networks are 2 things that don't go well together. That includes WANs.

	05-09-2003 04:18									#52
	Remove this text

So it's Windows 2000's fault that your network is overburdened?

	05-09-2003 04:21									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Asher "Switching numeral form"? Web integration? Both WordPerfect and Word use the /Fonts directory in your Windows install to populate the font lists...Maybe WordPerfect comes with a bunch of fonts now, but I'd be interested in knowing the names of those you like. It's probably because you're just used to WordPerfect. The last WordPerfect version I liked was 5.0.

Switching numeral form midlist: as in, 1, 2, 3, D, E, 6, 7, H, all in the same frigging column! It does that to me and I don't have any idea why. There's all sorts of little crap like that. Wordperfect doesn't have as many features but at least the ones it has are useful and actually work correctly.
Web integration: I do not want any buttons that have anything to do with the internet on my WP's toolbar. I never use them, but you can't get rid of 'em. While we're at it, I want to send that Helpful Genius guy or whatever he's called to go to hell and leave me my normal help features on the top row, not the toolbar, I don't want it to EVER print without showing a box asking for preferences first, etc...
Fonts: I'm pretty sure the massive selection of fonts I have came with the wordperfect suite. The list is literally three or four times the size of what comes with the form of Word they have at school, and since they have XP I'm guessing they have most of them. Wordperfect has three or four variants on most of the main types. I can't remember many by name, but my personal favorite is MacedonCapsSSK. It's obviously not useful for everything, but there are times when you just want to be able to print Olde English-looking letters. That's why I think it came with the package-I can't picture my dad going out of his way to get a typeface that lets you write like a monk. I use WP8, BTW.

	05-09-2003 04:24									#54
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quote: Web integration: I do not want any buttons that have anything to do with the internet on my WP's toolbar. I never use them, but you can't get rid of 'em. While we're at it, I want to send that Helpful Genius guy or whatever he's called to go to hell and leave me my normal help features on the top row, not the toolbar, I don't want it to EVER print without showing a box asking for preferences first, etc...

I've NEVER seen this "web toolbar" you're talking about. I think it can be activated, but I've never actually seen it.

You can move the help buttons off of the toolbar.

If you want the prefs to show up before printing, use the print in the file menu. It's only one more friggin click.

	05-09-2003 04:26									#55
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I just hit CTRL-P and get the box.

It's a word processor, what the hell are you doing using the mouse.

	05-09-2003 04:37									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So it's Windows 2000's fault that your network is overburdened?

We have a workstation to server ratio of about 15:1 and most clients run word processors and spreadsheets. Or an IDE, in my case, which is most of the time also some kind of "word processor". These apps do not overly stress a network. Should be not overburdened. The network architecture is also fine, as far as I can see (although I'm not an expert), and it is daily administered. In one of my former work places we had a *NIX network with Windows workstations (don't know which *NIX, didn't care then). We had way more workstations per server and the admin came only 4 hours a week. In this time he mostly drank coffee with our secretary. Quite a difference, eh?

	05-09-2003 04:39									#57
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Indeed. I would tell you about my school's pathetically slow Unix network that is under constant maintenance, but I ignore your anecdotal evidence so I'm sure you'll do the same to mine.

	05-09-2003 04:40									#58
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I have too much crap to remember already without learning the shortcuts for programs other than Civ. If I remember the wrong combination of keys or press the wrong ones by accident, god only knows what word will do. I don't even like the fact that the Insert key EXISTS, for example. I brush against it by accident and suddenly I find my words erasing each other. Word probably has some "convenient" tool to make it permanent, or something similarly nuts. I'd rather do things manually than trust the 'puter to do them for me, but I have to wrestle like all get-out before Microsoft lets me.
And there's no "web toolbar," but the form of word they have at school has all this internet crap mixed in with the normal stuff. Why would I want to search the internet from my word processor, for example? I use my processor for *typing*, and embellishments of that typing. I have a browser for a reason. If I feel a sudden urge to use google, I do not see what the big deal is about minimizing and clicking on a shortcut.

	05-09-2003 04:43									#59
	Remove this text

Word actually - very conveniently - has a little indicator in the status bar that tells you when Insert has been pressed.

	05-09-2003 04:45									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Indeed. I would tell you about my school's pathetically slow Unix network that is under constant maintenance, but I ignore your anecdotal evidence so I'm sure you'll do the same to mine.

As you wish.

Although you should hear our admin curse...