05-09-2003 01:09									#31
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Gee Sava, was it a conspiracy? I thought liberals were and are quite open about their desires to increase the power of the federal government. Do you now think The New Deal and Great Society were secretively passed into law?

Sava re-writes the history of the 20th century and liberals were actually trying to restrain the federal government from growing.

	05-09-2003 01:11									#32
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quote: Sava re-writes the history of the 20th century and liberals were actually trying to restrain the federal government from growing.

I'm not rewriting... I'm repeating what I've learned. But I see your point, it's the lies that the liberal federal government taught me, right? public schooling

	05-09-2003 01:19									#33
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quote: I'm not rewriting... I'm repeating what I've learned.

And you learned it was the liberals who've steadfastly stood in the way of an ever growing federal government?

quote: But I see your point, it's the lies that the liberal federal government taught me, right? public schooling

Not even the public schools teach the crap you've learned.

	05-09-2003 01:22									#34
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quote: And you learned it was the liberals who've steadfastly stood in the way of an ever growing federal government?

I see your problem now Berz... you form irrational opinions and conclusions on what others tell you. Go reread my posts, and if this is what you still believe, then let me know. I can use smaller words and shorter sentences to further explain myself.

I'll save you the trouble...

The large federal government is the product of both liberal and conservative politicians and has evolved over the course of the last 75 years of the 20th Century. It was not a "liberal" conspiracy.

Do you understand this? If not, I can't help you with your learning disability.

	05-09-2003 01:35									#35
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quote: The large federal government is the product of both liberal and conservative politicians and has evolved over the course of the last 75 years of the 20th Century.

Actually I'd largely agree with that. By and large, both groups are made up of idiots.

	05-09-2003 01:38									#36
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Actually I'd largely agree with that. By and large, both groups are made up of idiots.

once again Floyd shows up to restore my confidence in Libertarians...

	05-09-2003 01:39									#37
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quote: I see your problem now Berz... you form irrational opinions and conclusions on what others tell you. Go reread my posts, and if this is what you still believe, then let me know. I can use smaller words and shorter sentences to further explain myself. I'll save you the trouble... The large federal government is the product of both liberal and conservative politicians and has evolved over the course of the last 75 years of the 20th Century. It was not a "liberal" conspiracy. Do you understand this? If not, I can't help you with your learning disability.

And who started this process "75" years ago? You do realize who was president 75 years ago and who got elected because the incumbant was too conservative, i.e., wasn't sufficiently liberal. No Sava, the real growth in government began "70" years ago and FDR was President. And what did I say? That while "conservatives" have continued the growth in government started by liberals, it was liberals who started the process. Naturally, you accuse me of mis-construing what you've said after mis-construing what I've said. God you're easy...

Ah, the last 75 years of the 20th century? So you're even further off on the chronology.

	05-09-2003 01:40									#38
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the progressive movements that lead to the New Deal can trace back to labor disputes in the 19th century... sorry Berz, FDR isn't this evil mad scientist who started it all...

	05-09-2003 01:48									#39
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quote: once again Floyd shows up to restore my confidence in Libertarians...

I said something different? Nah, you just conveniently mis-read what I said, but the fact remains - it was liberals who began the process.

quote: the progressive movements that lead to the New Deal can trace back to labor disputes in the 19th century... sorry Berz, FDR isn't this evil mad scientist who started it all...

Once again you don't read very well, I never said there was no "progressive" movement or growth of the federal government preceding FDR, only that the enormous growth in government began with FDR. But I'm so glad you can cite earlier liberals who were pushing for the centralisation of power. How does that help your argument that liberals were not initially responsible?

	05-09-2003 01:51									#40
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quote: Once again you don't read very well, I never said there was no "progressive" movement or growth of the federal government preceding FDR, only that the enormous growth in government began with FDR. But I'm so glad you can cite earlier liberals who were pushing for the centralisation of power. How does that help your argument that liberals were not initially responsible?

BECAUSE EVERYONE IS RESPONSIBLE!!!!

	05-09-2003 01:58									#41
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quote: BECAUSE EVERYONE IS RESPONSIBLE!!!!

Even the people who opposed the "progressive" agenda?
Then I guess "everyone" is responsible for Bush winning in 2000 too... Sava, let other liberals do the debating, some are actually rather intelligent...

	05-09-2003 02:01									#42
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you are hopeless...

	05-09-2003 02:28									#43
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Your best comeback yet

	05-09-2003 07:23									#44
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Cheer up, Berzerker! The neocons may just end up wiping out all those evil liberals. Then you libertarians can come out of your bunkers, log cabins, or whatever, with your stockpile of firearms and take over the joint. And then we'll all live happily ever after in a magnificent Jeffersonian-style agrarian utopia.

We don't steal, we all pay fair, livin' in a flat tax paradise....

	05-09-2003 14:10									#45
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Umm...Jules, I know it doesn't help your little stereotype games, but most of the people holed up in the wilderness with weapons stockpiles are probably conservatives, neo-Nazis, and "survivalists", not libertarians. Let's look at actual cases - Randy Weaver was not libertarian, Waco - not libertarian, Montana "Freemen" - not libertarian, Ted Kazinsky - oops - environmental luddite. There are probably more liberals holed up in the boonies than libertarians.

	06-09-2003 08:35									#46
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That's why my post was supposed to be taken in jest. In fact, I actually agree with most of what Ron Paul says about the neocons. I apologize if you found the joke more offensive than funny.