05-09-2003 18:24									#61
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quote: The same was done in New Jersey, because state law said no candid can enter the race under 60 prior to election, and no candid can drop out under 60 days prior to an election. The NJSC over-rode the current law to elect the Demo. The USSC should have stooped that one to.

Yes, another court re-writing the law to help the Dems. What was their rationale? I think they said that although there were a number of candidates competing with the Republican, to "safeguard democracy", the law had to be ignored to allow a Democrat replacement for Torricelli on the ballot. Thx for reminding me of that gem, Joe. Where are these courts when the Dems and Repubs use "re-districting" to solidify districts in their favor?

Good point Evil.

quote: His second general election,he "won" 83% of the vote, largest pecentage in the state's history.

I'd have to look up the results, but I think Hegel ran unopposed when he got 83%. Strange, no court jumped in to demand other people be placed on the ballot to safeguard democracy.

	05-09-2003 21:54									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil What I don't get is how the Bush team knew in advance that Florida would be so close that a few thousand votes 'deleted' by the means described (databasing, scaring away blacks) would swing it? After all the databases were planned at least a year previously.....

I doubt they knew it would be close. I'm willing to be they thought it would be an easy victory for the Gov's brother. How were they to know that knocking out nearly 100,000 eligible voters (91,000 registered voters plus 8,000 out of state ex-felon who the gov illegally stripped of their vote)? They still would have lost Florida had their not been a confusing balot in one county or 3,000 illegal absentee ballots that were accepted or if a few hundred people hadn't voted for Nader.

And despite that the Gov and the Sec of State and her office broke the law (and in the case of the gov, continue to break the law), no one has even been charged. Good ol' boy network inaction. This is such a corrupt state.

	05-09-2003 22:15									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith I call Bullshit. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1015074.stm

Unfortunately, I can't access the Chicago Sun-Times archives to dispute you, but in 2000, they wrote an article saying what I said.

I should also like to point out that 8 million out of Illinois' 11 million people, live in just five counties, so it only takes a few counties to carry the whole state.

	05-09-2003 23:19									#64
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quote: How were they to know that knocking out nearly 100,000 eligible voters (91,000 registered voters plus 8,000 out of state ex-felon who the gov illegally stripped of their vote)?

Proof? And what I mean by proof is a breakdown of the party affiliation of these people "illegally stripped" of their voting privileges - that would show it wasn't just a mistake or a result of standard practices. In Kansas you have to vote on a regular basis or you have to re-register to vote because of the practice of cleansing the roles of non-voters so the dead don't keep voting.

quote: They still would have lost Florida had their not been a confusing balot in one county or 3,000 illegal absentee ballots that were accepted or if a few hundred people hadn't voted for Nader.

Ballots designed by a Democrat. How ironic... And these "illegal" absentee ballots, were these the ballots from servicemen overseas whose votes were almost ignored resulting from Democrat challenges because of a technicality involving the postal service?

quote: And despite that the Gov and the Sec of State and her office broke the law (and in the case of the gov, continue to break the law), no one has even been charged. Good ol' boy network inaction. This is such a corrupt state.

What law?

quote: I should also like to point out that 8 million out of Illinois' 11 million people, live in just five counties, so it only takes a few counties to carry the whole state.

And according to Adam, %89 voted in the Chicago area.

	05-09-2003 23:29									#65
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Bush 2004 - It's a no brainer.

	05-09-2003 23:37									#66
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Threads like this crack me up, they are the equilalent of the famous question, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

Gore lost, fair and square, get over it.

	06-09-2003 00:18									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Proof? And what I mean by proof is a breakdown of the party affiliation of these people "illegally stripped" of their voting privileges - that would show it wasn't just a mistake or a result of standard practices.

http://www.gregpalast.com/columns.c...of%20Presidency

quote: Ballots designed by a Democrat.

Who was a former Republican and six months after the election rejoined the Republican Party.

quote: What law?

Several. 1st and foremost, the Constitution of the United States full faith and credit clause. Those 8,000 out of state convicts had had their voting rights restored in their state of origin. That means they had the right to vote in Florida, but despite being ordered by a judge to re-instate them in 1998, byt 2000, Jeb still hadn't done so (AFAIK, he still hasn't). That's contempt of court (that's two).

Next, the law that requires the voter list verification to be done by a private company requires that the contract go to the lowest bidder. Rather than go with the company that handled this for the state in 1998 and who had put in a $5,000 bid, the state went with he Republican conected Dynacorp, for and IIRC, a half million dollar bid. That's three.

Four! state law requires that the determination of those who are to be removed from the voter lists be strict, matching several characteristics. Kate Harris' office ordered Dynacorp to use only one matching characteristic to bounce someone off the list. She told them that the counties would have to verify the lists and would catch any errors.

FIVE! She then told the counties that they had to accept the lists from Dynacorp as given and could not change them, despite the fact that the law says that the counties must verify the lists. (in fact, several counties ignored her, including one county where the election official found herself scrubbed!!!).

quote: And according to Adam, %89 voted in the Chicago area.

Back then that doesn't surprise me. The precinct captains would see wehter or not you had voted and if not, go find you and drag you to the polls. You were expected to vote. Not only that, but by keeping the machine in officer you were more likely able to get things done. You needed new trash cans, you called up the precinct captain and he got them for you. Defniately corrupt, but an 89% figure isn't unbelievable.



Any Berz, you'd true Republican colors are showing. I should think as a Libertarian you'd be disgusted, revolted, and outraged by what the Republicans did here.

EDIT: replace DynaCorp with ChoicePoint.

	06-09-2003 00:20									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 Gore lost, fair and square, get over it.

The loss was neither fair nor sqaure, actually. The Republicans broke at least five laws to get to the contested results, and the fact that the results were constestable means by definition that it wasn't a square victory.

	06-09-2003 00:36									#69
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Neither side are saints that's for sure.

Can you honestly believe that the dems didn't try anything sneaky when they were counting votes. What about when they said that all the overseas military votes don't count?


Look, government in USA has never been so corrupt and power hungry as it is today. NEITHER side is innocent. They are all a bunch of wacked out losers lusting only after power and money. Isn't that the American way?

	06-09-2003 00:41									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich Can you honestly believe that the dems didn't try anything sneaky when they were counting votes.

Never argued that. I think both sides are scum, but the wishes of the people of the United States and the State of Florida should come before partisanship.

quote: What about when they said that all the overseas military votes don't count?

They were right. The votes they were contesting were clearly illegal under the laws of the State of Florida. About three thousand of them should have ben thrown out, because they were mailed after the election or had no date on them, were unsigned, unwitnessed, opened, etc. It's only cuz the Dems are such weenies that they didn' cintest this vote fraud.

	06-09-2003 01:01									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker I'll have to check your links, we've had them here since at least '92.

I'd like to see your links about the machines you have.

Are your machines from Diebold Systems (aka The McCarthy Group)? The links I've posted refer to them mainly, the real damning evidence I've seen refers to them. There are 2 other companies who make similiar machines: ES&S and Sequoia, that I haven't heard accusations about, but have similiar potental for fraud.

They may have decided to perpertrate their fraud several years after the first machines were installed to lull the electorate (and voter registrars) into complancency, and convince them to install more machines.

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Then why is the ACLU pushing these machines in California? Frankly, I've heard similar stories about these machines and I'm concerned, but we need proof and I'm wondering why the ACLU isn't going after this issue.

Maybe this is news to the ACLU. Maybe the bigshots in the organization don't realize how easy this fraud is to commit, and they're concerned about what happened in Florida instead.

What I've said may not constitute ironclad proof, but I urge you to look into this.

quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 Threads like this crack me up, they are the equilalent of the famous question, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

Have you stopped stealing votes yet?
I'm sure Bush would have liked to steal votes in the Security Council before we invaded Iraq too.