08-09-2003 01:10									#31
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Yes, they do.
I'd like to question them about their array of forces before they play their next turn. They might finally come to good use.

	08-09-2003 01:16									#32
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Btw, I support the move to migrate our population of knights to that hill.
It's good for having strong defenses along the way, and next turn we can jump from that hill to other hills that threaten either Salamanca or Merida.

	08-09-2003 01:17									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus What if all the southern Knights followed up the Rider attack? 11 units is formidable, and the following move the stack would threaten both Merida 66 and 63 as well as Alamo 33.

Well, we could get 12k to that tile, but...

There are 11 riders in the area. Note the one from Murcia is not there anymore. There are also at least 11 ansars that disappeared from Pamp 4 4. Those ansars could be as far south as Alamo 2 2.

	08-09-2003 01:23									#34
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Well, if GoW attacks it will be on inferior terms (or if we get lucky with promotions, a little better than that).
Besides, I get the feeling that the mass of the riders and ansars is in a location where they can't retreat far enough after attacking to prevent us from counter-attacking (ansars are especially vulnerable). It's just a hunch, but I suppose that GoW will keep most of their forces closer to RP and in the area of Salamanca.

	08-09-2003 01:26									#35
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I would also:

* Complete the road at Barc 44
* Put a Pike each on Barc 47, 441, and 4411
* Evenly distribute the forces at Barc 44 and 442, with any odd-number advantage going to 44

I think the MedInf at Barc 7 should be left alone for the moment, or possibly moved 1.

	08-09-2003 01:33									#36
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Why has Spain not upgraded the Horse in NM?

They have a potential trade with Lego, btw.

	08-09-2003 01:38									#37
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Should I point out that all that stands between them and taking everything else in Spain outside of Pamplona, and then Pamplona, is our army there, and that our army there gets no more reinforcement beyond a couple of k, p, and cats?

	08-09-2003 01:53									#38
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I have to go to the office for a couple of hours. If I am the only one not wanting to send the 12k there, then I would not stand in the way.

However, these are my thoughts...

There is a show down coming in the south. We face superior numbers of faster attackers, and now ND's infantry will also be in the mix.

We are a diversion down here, yes? Well we divert better the longer we keep significant forces in the field. We also need to maintain that force to keep Spain in the game as a lesser power rather than a basket case.

I suggest that we move into the hills next turn, bring a third worker along, and advance 1 hill tile per two turns towards Merida.

	08-09-2003 01:53									#39
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I'm not exactly sure what you meant there, nye.

	08-09-2003 01:55									#40
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He means, if the knights get beaten up badly, we have nothing to replace them and Spain is doomed. We lack the intel to know for sure, that this can't happen.

I agree, btw.

	08-09-2003 02:12									#41
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You are saying you want the Knights defended by Pikes, so go more slowly?

Not unreasonable.

Beyond that, however, I think it's about time to actually challenge them with a threat in the south, and force their hand.

How about a compromise:

3 Pikes to Barc 441, and 6 Knights each at Barc 44 and 442? The following turn, 2 Pikes and 12 Knights to Barc 4441?

From there though (depending on further intel), I think the Knights should be prepared to travel alone.

In terms of remaining strong in the south, don;t forget our 11 MedInf and 8 Cats, which are no trifles.

	08-09-2003 02:24									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus 3 Pikes to Barc 441, and 6 Knights each at Barc 44 and 442? The following turn, 2 Pikes and 12 Knights to Barc 4441?

That sounds about right.

Our pikes are really precious, even more since we know, that they are our advantage, since our opponents have none down there. Let's play that card.

	08-09-2003 02:27									#43
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Can we seize Barc 4442 this turn too? Or would that mean to split our force too much?

	08-09-2003 04:16									#44
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I like Theseus idea about a compromise- might blow GoW and ND's intention of engaging our armies, while still making sure we'll be able to retaliate and keep RP alive in case they get lucky and decimate whoever gets on that hill with few casualties.

	08-09-2003 04:24									#45
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We want to advance beyond our roads?

How about something like...

Next turn we advance to 4 4 1 with the main force, along with 3 workers and the settler.

The following turn, the 3 workers build the road, while the main force advances with a settler to 4 4 4 1.

The following turn we pop the settler and settle in to our new forward base of operations.

The pike to 4 4 4 2 this turn could be a good idea as a screen (spotting encroaching fast movers) and if they want to kill it, they risk the loss of 1 or more fast movers.

	08-09-2003 04:25									#46
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We could certainly advance 3 pike onto 4 4 1 this turn, as well.

	08-09-2003 08:42									#47
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I'm working on the labor orders.

The following is going to be incorporated in the economic section, but I'm going to go ahead and post it here for consideration.

- (My apologies if this has already been addressed. I haven't been keeping up with things, so I don't know whether it has or not, but given the current build priorities and NYE's apparent concern about production keeping up with income, I'm a bit concerned that it might not have been.) Why so many spears? If we actually need more pikes, that's fine, and since spears/pikes are slower, they may have to be built first to get the same place at the same time. But every spear we build is a WC we don't, and building and upgrading WCs is the fastest way to transform shields into gold. (And contrary to prejudice, upgrading WCs is no less efficient than upgrading horsemen, assuming cities can build either type of unit equally efficiently. Either way, the gold cost per shield is the same. WCs just shift the balance to use more gold and less shields, which is perfect when trying to use a gold reserve to build up a large army quickly.) As I said, if we need more pikes, that's fine. But delaying an invasion due to prejudice in favor of building and upgrading horsemen over building and upgrading WCs would make no sense.

	08-09-2003 09:18									#48
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We do need more pikes. And we will be hard pressed to upg everything soon. WC's are coming in cities finishing spears.

	08-09-2003 09:25									#49
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Reiterating an email which not all team members have gotten:

nye (I assume) pulled a tremendously slick move, and re-named a Settler as "Worker" and getting it to Barc 44.

We are on the verge of being able to build a town at Barc 4441 (correct? not looking at the map) as our southern forward base.

nye, yes, I think we do want to advance before our roads.

Think Rumsfeld... all of these things should be happening at once... creation of the forward town, a road to there, threats on their captured cities, threats from RP, threats to GoW in the north, more More MORE!!!

Keep them totally off balance and wasting their move advantage, whilst concurrently maintaining an unassailable core.

AND... Vel, as our unofficial ambassador to Vox (and by extension, Lego), I can envision all sorts of possible mayhem on Bob's western shores.

	08-09-2003 09:49									#50
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I can't go much longer, guys.

	08-09-2003 10:10									#51
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay - (My apologies if this has already been addressed. I haven't been keeping up with things, so I don't know whether it has or not, but given the current build priorities and NYE's apparent concern about production keeping up with income, I'm a bit concerned that it might not have been.) Why so many spears? If we actually need more pikes, that's fine, and since spears/pikes are slower, they may have to be built first to get the same place at the same time. But every spear we build is a WC we don't, and building and upgrading WCs is the fastest way to transform shields into gold. (And contrary to prejudice, upgrading WCs is no less efficient than upgrading horsemen, assuming cities can build either type of unit equally efficiently. Either way, the gold cost per shield is the same. WCs just shift the balance to use more gold and less shields, which is perfect when trying to use a gold reserve to build up a large army quickly.) As I said, if we need more pikes, that's fine. But delaying an invasion due to prejudice in favor of building and upgrading horsemen over building and upgrading WCs would make no sense.

You want all WCs? Hmmmm. We could do that. Land with all, or almost all knights. It is 2 turns income for 3 upg's though.

There will come a time though, when we will need a whole lot of infantry. We could go to pikes when the iron hooks back up.

	08-09-2003 10:35									#52
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I have to send the turn along. Run out of time.

I shuffled workforce. We can break in and switch things from spears to WC's at the beginning of next turn if that is desired.

	08-09-2003 10:41									#53
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Hold on, I can do the turn when I get back from work. I'll be a little hard-pressed on time, but if we need more time to discuss things then I'll definitely do it.

I haven't been keeping up-to-date with the specifics, so if you want me to do the turn please make sure that I get a specified list of orders in several hours.

	08-09-2003 11:33									#55
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I'm not involved in the military planning these days, so I don't know exactly what force mix is needed. My big point is that if we want lots of knights in a hurry for a quick offensive before our enemies get Gunpowder, building and upgrading WCs is the fastest way to do it. Whether we need additional pikes to accompany the knights and, if so, how many, is something for the military planners to decide.

Sorry about not getting economic inputs posted in time. My parents called and my dad and I got to talking.

	08-09-2003 13:26									#56
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I thought we were supposed to kill that rider.

Btw, anyone feeling like advancing two medinfs to Toledo-96 (hopefully killing ND's scouting medinf if he doesn't run away).

	08-09-2003 14:19									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber I thought we were supposed to kill that rider.

Since the winning knight would be toast for certain (not to talk about the possible losing ones - no retreat!), the best deal we could achieve would be a 1:1 tradeoff. Our forces are irreplaceable for quite some time and we should be reluctant to sacrifice them for minimal gain.

	08-09-2003 14:29									#58
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You're right.
At first I thought that a 1:1 tradeoff would be good for us because riders are more dangerous than knights, but then again we can use the same knights to achieve much better outcomes if our plans go through.

	08-09-2003 19:48									#59
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Well, GoW is playing smart - good move on their part, cutting that road. This isn't gonna be easy, but I think we already knew that.

Leo's makes things even uglier. Damn.

Re: spears or WCs... well, frankly we need both. Do what you think is best, NYE. Probably a mix of the two.

-Arrian