08-09-2003 03:36									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker So what are these military prisons like? Normal prisons? Fed Country Clubs?

	08-09-2003 03:36									#32
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howbout if the guy joined the marines only to defend america-his homeland. If he doesnt want to fight legally unjust wars abroad, he IMO shouldnt be crusifield like this. Maybe hes just a patriot, no more.

	08-09-2003 03:38									#33
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hay answer the question d1ckhead

	08-09-2003 03:39									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker So what are these military prisons like? Normal prisons? Fed Country Clubs?

A) State prisons are much, much worse than Federal.
B) Military prisons are not the same as Federal.
C) Leavenworth is killer.

	08-09-2003 03:40									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker funny

I thought so.

	08-09-2003 03:41									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild I thought so.

That's because you're dried up and nobody wants you (happens at 25, IIRC?)

	08-09-2003 03:42									#37
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius howbout if the guy joined the marines only to defend america-his homeland. If he doesnt want to fight legally unjust wars abroad, he IMO shouldnt be crusifield like this. Maybe hes just a patriot, no more.

"I, ___________________________________, do solemly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed overme, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice." (So help me God. optional)

Nothing in the enlisted oath gives you the option to pick and choose which wars or orders you think are acceptable and which aren't. And this miserable excuse was a REMF.

	08-09-2003 03:47									#38
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...but IRAQ was a bad war!

Why don't you guys understand that it was his right to do this?

	08-09-2003 03:47									#39
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Preamble to the Constitution of The American Legion

For God and Country we associate ourselves together for the following purposes:

To uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America; To maintain law and order; To foster and perpetuate a one hundred percent Americanism; To preserve the memories and incidents of our associations in the great wars; To inculcate a sense of individual obligation to the community, state and nation; To combat the autocracy of both the classes and the masses; To make right the master of might; To promote peace and goodwill on earth; To safeguard and transmit to posterity the principles of justice, freedom and democracy; To consecrate and sanctify our friendship by our devotion to mutual helpfulness.

	08-09-2003 03:48									#40
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Wasnt familiar with the oath, Michael

whats REMF?

	08-09-2003 03:49									#41
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Since our smartass vets won't answer the question, here's some articles on Fort Leavenworth. No special information that you jackasses are privy to here.

http://www.ljworld.com/section/statebudget/story/121287

	08-09-2003 03:55									#42
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What do you want, Ted ?
A first-hand account, or for one of us to do for you what you just did ?

SHEESH!

	08-09-2003 03:57									#43
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quote: The new facility is home to 229 prisoners from the Army, 85 from the Air Force, 70 from the Marine Corps, 55 from the Navy

PILOTS deserting? Or would these be carrier mules?

quote: and one Coast Guardsman.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

	08-09-2003 04:00									#44
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Coast Guard isn't the sluff-off duty some think.
Not always.
I've written of their river patrol in Vietnam. Took a lot of fire.

	08-09-2003 04:01									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Since our smartass vets won't answer the question, here's some articles on Fort Leavenworth. No special information that you jackasses are privy to here. http://www.ljworld.com/section/statebudget/story/121287

I don't know about Leavenworth, but here at Ft Sill some of guys in my unit went on a walkthrough ( they all work at prisons in their cvilian life) and they said things were a litte stricter than where they work back in the state prisons. The regional correctional facility here at Ft Sill is used as an overflow for Leavenworth. Sorry I can't give ya more deails, but I had no interest in even going near the place. I did see some of the prisoners being escorted for a hospital vist during one of my visits about a month ago. He didn't look happy having the Marine pulling him through the hospital with shackles.

	08-09-2003 04:04									#46
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http://www.court-martial.com/military_prisons.htm

Some more stuff. maybe some good info there

	08-09-2003 04:04									#47
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quote: Ramo. You're thinking with a civilian mind. You can't help that.

Yes, excuse my civilian mind if I don't understand that when a big corporation reneges on a contract out of greed, it only has to pay some monetary damages, but when a soldier reneges on a contract out of ethical considerations, he gets thrown in prison. It's an interesting society that he's supposed to protect.

	08-09-2003 04:05									#48
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Thanks Sprayber.

	08-09-2003 04:07									#49
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Ramo, Ramo.
A doctor can't pick his patients in the emergency room, and a soldier can't pick when he'll do his duty.

	08-09-2003 04:09									#50
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The hospital in which the doctor works gets sued and has to pay money if he refuses a patient, he doesn't get thrown in prison.

	08-09-2003 04:16									#51
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When you sign up you agree to go by their rules. A part of that is accepting the USCMJ. If you can't agree to those terms, then don't join. It's really that simple. You can argue all day about if it's right or wrong, but no one forced them into signing.

	08-09-2003 04:19									#52
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Being legal makes it no less unjust.

	08-09-2003 04:24									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Being legal makes it no less unjust.

The unjust part is that the other *******s got off as easy as they did.

	08-09-2003 04:24									#54
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If one knows the rules, how can it be called unjust?

I'll ask something else, that's only been alluded to, if you want to get into more unjust.
His professed Gaydom.
Not that there's anything wrong with that; but how will that be accepted ?

	08-09-2003 08:09									#55
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What if there were real school vouchers, to avoid this kind of things to happen ? Sure, it won't happen. If people could study in the US without either starving their whole family or joining the military, the reservists would lose half their manpower...

	08-09-2003 10:05									#56
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He got what he deserve. He could have reported and then told them that he was gay, dumb and dumber, and they just might have not sent him to Iraq. Remember the story, the other reported and that is why they were not court martial. The other 27 will be kickout of the Marine Corp.

	08-09-2003 10:13									#57
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And the deserting soldier is also working for a special branch of the government. Screw civil penalties, this ain't your ordinary contract. A government has an interest in deterring people from reneging on their promises after taking all these benefits from their end, and of course has the power to put these morons in jail .

He should have gotten greater (the benefits he recieved probably overweighed, by far, the 6 months).

	08-09-2003 10:35									#58
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat "I, ___________________________________, do solemly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed overme, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice." (So help me God. optional) Nothing in the enlisted oath gives you the option to pick and choose which wars or orders you think are acceptable and which aren't. And this miserable excuse was a REMF.

Does the UCMJ say that an unlawful order can be legally disobeyed?

	08-09-2003 10:42									#59
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Yes.

However, there were no unlawful orders at question. The fact that invading Iraq to get rid of Hussein displeases Lima Deltas around the world does not make it unlawful.

	08-09-2003 10:51									#60
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Christ, he was a cargo monkey. What in the hell was he afraid of? Tennis elbow from operating a forklift all day? It's not like he was leading the way into Baghdad. Just suck it up and stop rocking the boat...