16-09-2003 04:05									#31
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Latest offer from the Hive--

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Greetings again from the Human Hive; after further discussion and consultation amonghts the Hive governing and administrative bodies it has been decided to formaly issue an offer of trade to Peace.

We offer Applied Physics in exchange for Doctrine: Mobility. We await your response, and wish to see a positive outcome to these trade negotiations in the hopes that this step will help further the good relations between our two factions.

Sincerely,

Voltaire

Chairman of the Central Continuing Committee

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I have not yet responded

	16-09-2003 06:23									#32
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In the interests of good relations and getting us a mil tech I can go with this. Plus a treaty.

A question is if they pre accept and we accept will it mess up the tech we are offered. I must go back to the Chart room discussion.

	16-09-2003 06:34									#33
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It seems, according to Cuspidore's latest intelligence, that Adaptive Econ will still be offered, even with delivery of Applied Physics.

Should we play safe and agree treaty and trade but let us pre-accept first?.

But before that have we any inclination that the Hive have Non linear Maths. Have we asked them outright about it and/or are they researching it?.

	16-09-2003 21:33									#34
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My latest message to the HIve as suggested by herc
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Honored Voltaire

I have been asked if your faction has acquired nonlinear maths or would be in a position to acquire it soon. The council feels that that would be a more desirable tech to acquire.
Our preference for any trade for lower level techs would be for a deal being concluded after our next discovery . The idea is to minimize tech cost. WE could negotiate a binding deal now but we just don't don't have a burning need to acquire any of those lower techs immediately.

The deal applied physics for mobility is still a possibility ( discussion is ongoing) but our people really hoped that we can deal for other techs. Nonlinear maths or HEC are of most interest. If you fear the spread of those techs, we could agree not to trade them onward for a set number of years.


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The purpose of this message was threefold

1. see if they have any better techs
2. stall
3. set up the idea of restrictions on trade as an acceptable thing-- we are offering it-- for when we might want to trade them doc flex without them trading it on.

	17-09-2003 04:19									#35
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Voltaire has confirmed they do not have nonlin maths and he provided a friendly message indicating willingness to trade. He indicated he would let me know if they might acquire the tech soon

	17-09-2003 04:55									#36
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In the circumstances I am happy to accept the trade, Applied Physic for Doc: Mob. (I mean every Hive boy wants a rover).

It also gives us a starting Military tech and I feel it might make Miriam and Roze pay more attention when we call up.

We also get some trade ecs I presume. There was the suggestion that we look for a Pact because they are distant from us. May not be a bad idea and at least we would have an idea of their relationships and demographics.

Our advantage is I believe we have a better map of the world than they or anyone.

	17-09-2003 11:48									#37
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I presume that our trade costs were not actually a major concern of Cap'n Flubber, but mostly an excuse not to trade Doc:Flex right away. I think that we are doomed to have high tech costs if we are going to be a trading power. That's one of the reasons I tend to favor researching those more obscure techs, because then we don't have to worry about someone else researching them first and having to accept a lousy trade under the gun of researching a low trading-value tech (also because those new techs mostly on the right side of the chart are seemingly more appropriate to us than most of the others - I'm not obsessed with them though, I promise).

So while we can do without those level 1 techs and just trade for their descendant techs (assuming we stay on good terms with whomever eventually does research them so that we don't have to worry about them getting used against us), I also don't have anything against getting them, especially if we get them for something that isn't particularly special either. Doc:Mobility is probably a little more useful than most level 1's, but not so much so that I would balk at trading it for Applied Physics, which we may turn out to need if nobody else wants to research NonLinear, effectively making it one of those techs I was talking about above. Although if we keep talking it up, it may become a hot research item yet.

	17-09-2003 17:27									#38
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I'm in favour of the trade App. Physics for Doc:Mob and the hint of Doc: Flex to follow in the near future.

With Roze building ships, it surely won't be long before she makes contact. The Hive we feel are her closest faction.

When we trade Doc:Flex depends on progress with the PUT and Cycon.

	17-09-2003 21:08									#39
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well johnd-- we are a trading power and our tech costs will really suck but if we are talking a trade for which we have no pressing immediate use, like app. physics, I would delay until after our next discovery to save a turn or so of research time on our next tech. On the contrary, if people saw ANY immediate use for app physics, I would conclude the trade now.

So my rationale to the HIVE was part truth and part excuse


Herc--

I am stalling everyone on the doc flex deal-- The wording of how interest is calculated in the cycon deal is designed so thay will not want the tech until they are close to their next discovery. If they want it early, the likelihood of major interest coming our way is greatly increased

With PUT I am still waiting to hear back on my request to genesplicing-- IF they come across with that, IMHO we accept their deal and then haul ass to deal doc flex to the Hive and Drones. I would then move into commlink sale mode about 5 years after that to try to sell the commlinks just before they would otherwise meet

	17-09-2003 21:43									#40
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Looks like you've got it exactly right.

	18-09-2003 03:07									#41
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No Prob, Cap'n F; even if we worked a deal as fast as possible, it couldn't get here before we finish our own research (the beginning of the forthcoming turn) as we could just refrain from accepting it until after our research ship comes in. . . unless you were talking about our next research ship, by which time we could hope to have so many more traded techs under our belt that the one more would hardly be a drop in the bucket.

	18-09-2003 04:27									#42
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I was not aware our next tech was so imminent-- Dp people like the mobility for app physics deal-- I never really rejected it and got the sense it was on the table if we want.

	18-09-2003 05:27									#43
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Sounds good to me - just wait until we get Doc: Init nailed down

	18-09-2003 20:08									#44
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You could delay the tech Applied Physics for Doc: Mob trade, by explaining the need to minimize our tech costs as above. As a gesture of good will we could send over Doc:Mob, wait a year and then ask for Applied. This would gain us 2/3 years more before we would under pressure to trade Doc:Flex.

They won't know we have Doc:Init until we start the MCC. Just an idea.

Equally I can live with the trade just after we get Doc :Init next turn. Useful to get that Applied Physics under our belt and it will show the borg we're not dependent om them.

Overall I do approve of the stall strategy.

	10-10-2003 05:56									#45
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Received this by email from Ambassador Kody

I put gene splicing in the diplomatic window. It should appear in your
turn.

	10-10-2003 18:12									#46
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Latest from the HIve

-----------------------------------------------

Ambassador Flubber,

I finally got around to looking at your techs. The hive has some
interest
in the planetary energy grid, would you like to name a price you would
be
willing to part with it for?

Kody



_______________________________________


Calling adaptive economics " the Planetary Energy grid" makes it pretty obvious what they are looking to get

	10-10-2003 21:24									#47
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That tech to trade is of course a no no until we are virtually certain of building PEG with crawlers, rushes etc. Let's re visit or remind ourselves of our strategy in the Chart room and Strategy thread.

	10-10-2003 23:32									#48
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IMHO we do not trade this tech until we get the PEG-- have we started crawlers to accomplish this

2 crawlers fully upgraded should be sufficient to get us close enough that we can use cash the rest of the way--- Is anyone else even CLOSE to adaptive econ ??

	11-10-2003 02:03									#49
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To echo Cuspidore BB we have nothing to upgrade to in the crawler department.

Second there is no faction anywhere close to Adaptive Econ.

Third we have started crawlers on HMB and l'il Accident, but no site here or elsewhere designated yet as SP central.

	19-10-2003 07:58									#50
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Latest Hive message:

quote: Greetings Captain Makahlua, I would like to congratulate your on your democratic ascension to the leadership of PEACE. The Central Continuing Committee has high hopes for replenishing relations with PEACE and entering into a new era of prosperity for both our factions. In order to usher in this new era of relations the Human Hive wishes to propose a trade offer to PEACE. We wish to acquire Adaptive Economic, in order to construct the Planetary Energy Grid, in exchange we offer you Environmental Engineering. The reason for this trade would be that it benefits both factions by amalgamating our research efforts. Furthermore it weakens the grip on technological advance that the University holds, and would allow both our factions (through tech trade) to become less dependant on research factions. May the Human Hive and PEACE exist in friendship and brotherhood for a thousand years! Voltaire, Chairman of the Central Continuing Committee

My reply:

quote: Many thanks, the 'hot seat' maybe our highest office, but it's not without both perks and perils I've passed your note on to the Captain's Council and either I or Ambassador Flubber will let you know if that deal is agreeable to the fleet -Seraph Makhalua PEACE Head of Fleet Ops

	19-10-2003 10:00									#51
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They make it pretty clear that they are interested in the PEG, even going so far as to use that as the name for the tech; I suspect that they are not so interested in the tech itself minus the SP.

They are clearly organized to build SP's efficiently (while we are not presently at all close in that department). Thus, if we were to trade them the tech without having first completed the PEG, there is every likelihood that they would beat us to it. They might have a base producing an SP that has been done already (or one that they want less than the PEG) and could switch to the PEG with little or nothing left to add in order to finish it; such sleepers don't show up on the Global SP screen (F5 orF6?), they only show up if you have infiltration and look at their F4 screen or at the base it is being built in - so we would have to look at that closely. Even if they didn't have one already ready to go, with a bunch of Hive land bases near each other, they might be able to churn out crawlers 2, 3 or 4 times faster than us. As a frequent Hive player, I know that energy is very important to them - the minus 1 energy at each base thing is like growing up in a depression, it leds to a certain thrifty attitude, in this case w/r energy and econ and the PEG seems like going to heaven.

If we really are going to build it ourselves (and I would recommend it over the MCC), then we should just tell them that instead of dancing around the issue (unless we are going to try to sell the tech to them on the same turn that we finish the PEG, which could be irritating to them if it came out of the blue, even more so if we had been otherwise leading them down the garden path by engaging in a conversation about it withour revealing our own interest in the PEG). If we nix the deal flatly on those grounds, then maybe we can get on to negotiating something we don't mind trading so much.

	19-10-2003 19:13									#52
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I think the Hive have started the Command Nexus. And I agree we should say what our ambitions are for the PEG.

Also re Ecol Eng the UNI are closer to finishing it than the Hive. Note also the Hive and Uni have met. I suggest we get trading agreements Eth Calc to the Hive for re Doc Loyalty and then Doc Loyalty to the UNI for SoHB or they will exchange it themselves.

	21-10-2003 09:28									#53
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It might be advantageous to string them mildly along for just a few more turns, as if we were debating it or something, nothing obvious, but the longer they are in doubt the better our chances of completing it first are.

	13-06-2004 18:32									#54
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I was surprised because the drones walked halfway across our continent without us knowing. So the first thing I thought how much of our map do the peace have. Also later on the university managed to walk several squares across our continent too.

When that happened the homeland starting feeling like a bar.

	14-06-2004 09:12									#55
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Oh yeah, we purposeful said we want the PEG rather than saying we want adaptive economics. It wasn't a slip of the tongue at all.

Judging from the way my own faction approached the SP issue I realised that if we said we were after adaptive economics there would be alot of manevouring on both sides which would hurt the relations.

My thinking was only manevour diplomantically when you absolutely have to. That's because it generates bad will and makes manevouring for the things you really need that much harder.

Looking at the trading going on with other factions, I realised that's exactly what happened. By trying to be too sneaky it caused fewer trades to go through and less cooperation in the long run.