12-09-2003 05:45									#91
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Precedent. That's just how it is.

	12-09-2003 05:50									#92
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Ramo is partially right. To expand, because the judges said so . Due process is VERY flawed in that way that judges can decide which rights have been 'fundamental' and thus cannot be violated under the idea of 'Substantive Due Process'. Judges have decided you have a right of privacy in sex, but not in drugs. Some suspect that the court in using Substantive Due Process merely substitutes its morals when deciding what rights are fundamental... and they would be right .

	12-09-2003 05:50									#93
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More specifically, the due process clause of the 14th Amendment was specifically designed to prevent things like a state trying to prohibit interracial marriage. It wasn't designed to prevent states from prohibiting a drug.

	12-09-2003 05:57									#94
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quote: More specifically, the due process clause of the 14th Amendment was specifically designed to prevent things like a state trying to prohibit interracial marriage.

That's incorrect. The Equal Protection Clause was designed to prevent interracial marriage (at least where whites were allowed to marry other races than blacks) . I am of the opinion that the Due Process Clause of the 14th was designed simply to refer to those considered 'Procedural Due Process'. You get the right to a hearing or trial (basically extending the guarentee of a fair trial to the states).

	12-09-2003 06:02									#95
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quote: (at least where whites were allowed to marry other races than blacks)

Don't think there were too many options in the postbellum deep South.

	12-09-2003 06:14									#96
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Sticking a needle in yourself is not victimless:

First, the drug which you got is supporting a criminal organization that can and probably does harm people (in the least law enforcement that fights them).

Second, the drug is dangerous to you (where as sex is not in itself, just with who) and has bad side effects including addiction.

	12-09-2003 06:25									#97
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The reason why drugs support criminal organizations is that dealing drugs is illegal. Black markets tend to lead to violence.

	12-09-2003 06:27									#98
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There is no such thing as acting under the influence of intercourse (though people do stupid things seeking it).

	12-09-2003 06:28									#99
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Could some clarify how this tenuous "right" covers sex but not smoking?

	12-09-2003 06:32									#100
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quote: Originally posted by TCO Could some clarify how this tenuous "right" covers sex but not smoking?

Sex doesn't cause cancer. (at least that we know of).

	12-09-2003 06:38									#101
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quote: Originally posted by TCO Could some clarify how this tenuous "right" covers sex but not smoking?

Well, for one, sex is closer to hunger and thirst, and the need for oxygen than smoking is.

Second, no law limits your ability to smoke in your house (the crime here was public sex, the problem that they decided to prosecute differently de to the type of sex, not just that it was done in public), so why should there be ones that limits your ability to have sex in your house? Both have age of consent set, so there is no difference there.

	12-09-2003 07:24									#102
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So where in the constitution does it say that lack of danger makes it allowable?

	12-09-2003 07:32									#103
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The constitution does not have to say it: it does not say you have a right to smoke or not to smoke either.

Sex is a universal human constant, and as important to humanity as breathign. Smoking is a custom that serves no purpose. They are hardly at the same level.

Now, as for harm..the question is, what would allow you to reguate such actions? Well, if the consequence of your actions harms others..after all, the rationale against public sex is that it lowers public decency, undemrine social bonds and moral codes, blah, blah, blah..in essence, that it harms the community. Trying to make this case for consentual sex between to grown adults, no matter the sex, is much harder than makign the case for putting a flaming paper tube filled with tabacco in your mouth, speically given the consequences of the materials on the health of the body.

	12-09-2003 09:22									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Voltaire Sex doesn't cause cancer. (at least that we know of).

Au contraire mon ami! The risk of cervical cancer is positively linked with the number of partners a women has AND an early age of onset of sexual activity.

	12-09-2003 09:26									#105
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GePap, TCO's original argument (a better one) compared sex to other drugs. Heroin doesn't really harm anyone else directly, and you sure as **** can't use it in your own house .

	12-09-2003 10:48									#106
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quote: Well, for one, sex is closer to hunger and thirst,

Eh?

So lack of sex kills someone?

Somebody better tell the convents.

	12-09-2003 14:21									#107
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drinking booze is a universal human constant also. And there are all kinda regs on that.

	12-09-2003 14:22									#108
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And since when is sodomy a human constant?

	12-09-2003 17:32									#109
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quote: Originally posted by TCO And since when is sodomy a human constant?

Since when are you such an ass?

Alchohol and Cigarettes will eventually be outlawed altogether, though enforcing of this principle is a bit hard, see the attempt at Prohibition.

	12-09-2003 17:48									#110
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Wasn't the right to have sex in public enshrined in the first amendment ? How come all of you puritanical people oppose free speech like that ?!?!

	12-09-2003 17:52									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Thorn Alchohol and Cigarettes will eventually be outlawed altogether, though enforcing of this principle is a bit hard, see the attempt at Prohibition.

And we'll all live in cities on the moon?
Drugs like heroin harmful insofar as people who take them can grow so desperate for more as to rob people to pay for them. The sexual equivalent would be...rape, I guess, except that rape is psychologically profiled as motivated by dominance issues most of the time, as opposed to plain horniness which just causes jerking off.

	13-09-2003 02:39									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Thorn Alchohol and Cigarettes will eventually be outlawed altogether, though enforcing of this principle is a bit hard, see the attempt at Prohibition.

They can take away my beer only if they pry it from my cold, dead hands!

But then, I think possession (not for the purposes of trafficking) of illicit drugs should be decriminalized in all cases, and those people who are addicted treated as what they are: people in need of medical help, not criminals in need of locking up. The traffickers can still rot in prison, though, especially those dealing to minors. I haven't yet decided on whether cocaine/heroin/etc should just be legalized & taxed outright like tobacco & alcohol (I do think marijuana should be legalized), though I think logically it would be more consistent and drive a stake through the heart of many of the criminal drug dealers.

	13-09-2003 02:58									#113
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quote: How come all of you puritanical people oppose free speech like that

Who talks during sex?

	13-09-2003 03:14									#114
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quote: Originally posted by TCO drinking booze is a universal human constant also. And there are all kinda regs on that.

What regs regulate drinking booze in your own home?

	13-09-2003 03:18									#115
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quote: Originally posted by TCO And since when is sodomy a human constant?

You don't think sex is a constant? Of course, for gays, any method of sex for them is designated "sodomy." Nice catch-22.

Regardless, the government has to show a compelling state interest in prohibiting such activity in private. SCOTUS just ruled that such a compelling interest does not exist when balanced with individual freedoms.

	13-09-2003 04:46									#116
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Ooooh, always fancied being done in a law library.

been there, done that.

	13-09-2003 07:13									#117
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I am a Yankee by birth and a southerner by the Grace of God..

I live and work and have a family and own a home in the Great State of North Carolina.
I am a Christian and I agree that we should not only have a law against Sodomy but prosecute them that would violate that law. Th same for all laws broken..

BUT..I have a problem with the way the court goes about doing these things, sometimes they throw out the baby with the bathwater, sometimes if you know someone or are yourselves someone, often times you get a pass, not right but it happens.

I am not what I call a "Puritan" but simply a citizen of the United States and a citizen of North Carolina. I live in a county with a Christian Sherriff, Ed Brown. He has been doing much to clean up immorral and illegal activities.

Question-Is Sodomy the end of all things and the worse thing that could happen to someone? Perhaps the point could be argued one way or another. BUT..it is Illegal and it is Immoral. So although some will debate some will dislike, perhaps a more pleasant alternative would be taking a ride of one of our very beautiful interstae highway sytems..



I-40

I-95

I-85

I-77


That is. Ifin you dont like, LEAVE!!

OR

Dont do it..
Peace

Grandpa Troll

	13-09-2003 07:56									#118
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Fortunately, the U.S. Constitution was written to protect those who aren't part of your religious club from you and your friends' attempts to legislate your own morality and dictate to people what they should be doing in the privacy of their own homes.

Founding Fathers

	13-09-2003 08:09									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Fortunately, the U.S. Constitution was written to protect those who aren't part of your religious club from you and your friends' attempts to legislate your own morality and dictate to people what they should be doing in the privacy of their own homes. Founding Fathers

Really?

I didnt realize that? I wasnt around to ask them about religious clubs? I am not a member of any religious clubs....

I am a Christain and God addresses that very issue of unnatural acts being an abomination unto him.

As for our Constitution;

The Constitution of the United States of America

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Do you think Sodomy promotes the general welfare of its people?

Do you think that Sodomy helps secure the blessngs of liberty?

By the way this is the preamble of the U S Constitution

Peace

Grandpa Troll

	13-09-2003 08:15									#120
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Hey, guess what...the preamble isn't law.

I suggest returning to civics.

And what your god addresses is irrelevant, since we've been established (thanks again to the Fathers) as a secular nation where your religious beliefs aren't the law of the land.

Oh, and sodomy promotes the emotional welfare of many people, because they enjoy doing it, sharing intimate physical moments with people whom they care about. It certainly doesn't have any effect on nosy moralist busybodies who should take the planck out of their own eyes before talking about the speck in someone else's.