13-09-2003 02:58									#31
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real quick: what year is 40 turns at?

	13-09-2003 03:00									#32
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2150bc. In each of the DAR threads I will post the year ending as well as the turn ending for each turn block. That was another reason I didn't want to change this one from 40 turns so it didn't confuse people.

	13-09-2003 03:03									#33
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thanks rhoth!

	13-09-2003 03:12									#34
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Good to know there is nothing for me to fix.

40 turns wasn’t many at the beginning of the game. I almost overshot it. But I agree, as the game goes on the turn number should come down.

	13-09-2003 03:17									#35
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I did over shoot it and had to find an autosave. We may need to use fewer turns as we go along, but this seemed fine. You need to have a bit of a chance to see if a plan was going to be effective.
BTW thanks for your efforts Rhothaerill.

	13-09-2003 03:31									#36
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I did over shoot it and had to find an autosave. We may need to use fewer turns as we go along, but this seemed fine. You need to have a bit of a chance to see if a plan was going to be effective. BTW thanks for your efforts Rhothaerill.

I think 40 ended up being fine for the first turn block. It will definitely be shortened for later turn blocks when each turn starts taking more time and thought.

Glad to be of service. It was kind of fun introducing something new to Apolyton University.

	13-09-2003 03:41									#37
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So has anyone seen any hints about the little surprise I added yet? It's nothing much, just a bit of flavor based on the current avatar trends.

	13-09-2003 03:51									#38
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I noticed it, but haven't grabbed the surprise to it's full extent yet!

--Kon--

	13-09-2003 04:28									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill So has anyone seen any hints about the little surprise I added yet? It's nothing much, just a bit of flavor based on the current avatar trends.

No clue what you're talking about Rhoth...

City names? A "Gondor" civ?


Dominae

	13-09-2003 04:35									#40
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No hints until it becomes common knowledge. I just wanted to add something a little fun.

	13-09-2003 04:51									#41
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Actually 2150 BC is the 41st turn... which means that when you post you're not supposed to have played that turn, just saved it when 2200 BC ended.

	13-09-2003 16:09									#42
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Ah, 40 turns it is now. Then I will play 10 more turns in a moment
Thanks for your efforts Rhoth!

	13-09-2003 17:58									#43
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* Beta cranks up his machine for his 40 turns.

Rhoth - thank you! Thank you!

	14-09-2003 00:31									#44
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Do you know what this game format reminds me of? A golf match that is used often for corporate and charity tournaments - called a scramble, or best ball. In that format - the four players - all of who are on the same team, tee off. They decide which was the best shot - and all four players play their next shots from that point. They then determine again which was the best shot - and play from there. Etc. Etc. You can see the similarities.

In golf - this makes tourneys go much faster where you have a lot of inexperienced players, and as well, players new to the game are more comfortable as they are not pressured to come up with 'the' shot.

The other requirement in a number of scrambles - which does put some pressure on new players - is that each player must have a minumum of 3 of their drives off the tee used. This is somewhat analogous to the rule for this AU 'match' about only using one player's save a max of two times in a row. In golf - the strategy used is that if a newbee has good drive which is as playable as the best shot - you use it so that you do not get to the 18th tee and are forced to use their drive regardless of how poor it is.

The analogy in our AU match: A top-notch player might have the best result for the second round, also having his first 40-turn save used as well. But that would eliminate his play for the third round (as his save could not be used three rounds in a row)- so the team would be better off picking the second best save in the second round (assuming it was fairly close), so that all players saves could be considered for the third round.

Something to think about, anyway.

	14-09-2003 00:40									#45
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Nice analogy Beta... As a golf player, I don't understand why I haven't saw the similarities...

So you might want to rename this format "Scramble Civ" or "Continuous Mulligan Civ"...

--Kon--

	14-09-2003 02:09									#46
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Golf scramble was in fact the analogy used when originally coming up with this format (over at MZO).

I'm PSYCHED!!

Rhothy!

	14-09-2003 02:39									#47
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* Konquest02 looks at the thread over at MZO.

I'm impressed...

Are Beta and Theseus the same person...?

	14-09-2003 02:45									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 * Konquest02 looks at the thread over at MZO. Are Beta and Theseus the same person...?

Now there's a scary thought. And what does that say about the great Voxian/Gathering Storm War. It was actually a major psychotic experience for 'us'. Sort of like Gollum in his LOTR dialogue with himself.

	14-09-2003 06:01									#49
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I deny that Beta exists. I deny that I exist.

There was no Vox / GS war... Vox wanted a change of climate, that's all.

What is this "golf"?

All of you are about to die.

YOU!! Konquest02!! Who is paying you to tell these lies??!!

	14-09-2003 07:27									#50
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Great analogy Beta. I'm no golfer, but my company often sponsors our employees to play in those kind of tournaments. I wasn't even thinking of that when I had the original idea for this game though. It morphed a lot with some of the input from others into what it is now.

	14-09-2003 07:31									#51
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BTW, it was asked in one of the DAR threads if you could talk about your saves and start the process of deciding on whose save will start the next turn block. I see no problem with that, though the actual decision making process should wait until everyone on the team has posted their game, or Tuesday...whichever comes first. On Tuesday I will post that the decision making process for deciding the three savegames for the next turn block will start and last until Thursday.

	14-09-2003 08:36									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus I deny that Beta exists. I deny that I exist. There was no Vox / GS war... Vox wanted a change of climate, that's all. What is this "golf"? All of you are about to die. YOU!! Konquest02!! Who is paying you to tell these lies??!!

Man, and did we get a change of climate!

quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill BTW, it was asked in one of the DAR threads if you could talk about your saves and start the process of deciding on whose save will start the next turn block. I see no problem with that, though the actual decision making process should wait until everyone on the team has posted their game, or Tuesday...whichever comes first. On Tuesday I will post that the decision making process for deciding the three savegames for the next turn block will start and last until Thursday.

Actually Rhoth - that sort of relates to a suggested change I have for the game format. How about each of the players simply posts when they have finished their turn - but they do not post the DAR or any pics or the saves. When the last player on all teams who is going to play has posted, then players can post their DAR's.

You can see the reasoning behind this. The downside is the logistics and timing.

As an alternative - maybe we need a gentlepersons' agreement that you do not read any of the DARs, or look at any of the saves and pics, until you have played. I sort of made a point of glancing the other way when I first skimmed the thread. Maybe this was covered elsewhere in AU; if so, sorry for bringing it up again. But it is clearly much more challenging when you play from scratch, so to speak.

	14-09-2003 09:11									#53
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Until you're ready to post your own DAR, there should be no reason to read the DAR thread. I think a gentleman's agreement works here.


Dominae

	14-09-2003 09:27									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Until you're ready to post your own DAR, there should be no reason to read the DAR thread. I think a gentleman's agreement works here. Dominae

That's the way I'd intended it. When I've played the recent AU games that have been created I always try to reach the level posted for DAR's before reading through that particular DAR. The same goes for this game. I think we can all agree to try not to read the DARs for any of the teams until you've posted your own.

	14-09-2003 19:37									#55
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OK. Works for me.

	15-09-2003 03:36									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen actually I think the voting is exclusively between the guys on the team. Originally posted by Rhothaerill: That was the way I'd intended it to prevent any messing around from others if this had become a pure competition game. Since it's not a competition, I'm up for suggestions either way (before Tuesday ). But I'm leaning toward only the people on the teams voting for the continuation of their game. Another thing is that if there is a tie, do you want the game admin (me) to break the tie?

Originally posted this in one of the DAR threads, but decided to put it here too to get a wider discussion (just in case not everyone on the teams reads other team's DARs). Thoughts?

	15-09-2003 03:51									#57
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I disagree. The closest thing we have to an impartial panel is the players on the other teams. Doing it this way also promotes more interest between the various teams, rather than just one's own game.

The Domination team should vote on the Spaceship team.

The Spaceship team should vote on the Opportunist team.

The Opportunist team should vote on the Domination team.


Dominae

	15-09-2003 04:36									#58
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It could be done either way, but I would lean towards the players on the team chosing, since they are the ones to play it. Otherwise, you would need to be assigned, like Dom suggested. I say that becasue, I sure do not want to load all of the games from all of the teams to evaluate them. Either my teams or some ones else.

	15-09-2003 04:46									#59
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Evaluation is done on the basis of the DAR only. That's why we want good DARs. Either way, I doubt anyone will open up each save to check everything out!

This is not a competition between teams. If it were, each team would choose their best save. We want to avoid that. By having the players in different teams choose the save, you're guaranteeing that they will select what they think is the best one, because they have no stake in it. We want disinterested and unbiased judges.

I really think this is the right way to do it. Why does everyone prefer the other way?


Dominae

	15-09-2003 05:12									#60
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I think that Dom is right on this one... As long as the teams are not in competition with one another (and they aren't, since the main goal is to learn ), the players from the other team(s) are the ideal judge, since they will probably be unbiased.

Also, looking at other people's playstyle in order to choose which save is the best one is a great learning activity. When you start to recognize in other's games some key points, you will eventually able to apply them in your own game. I speak from experience, because it's the main way I learned to play civ.

--Kon--