14-09-2003 23:21									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Dominae what can I say, that was excellent!

	14-09-2003 23:33									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by plattfuss Since I had no clue how to get those nice pictures in here I will give you a brief description, hoping someone can give me a hint so I will post the screenshots afterwards. Plattfuss

I see you did not read the DAR from Spaceship crew. That is cool, but I gave the instructions there so here it is, have fun.

http://www.irfanview.com/

You can get a free product that can capture screens from CivIII. You should use the resize option to set it to 800. Then you can do your regular post reply. It has a button for Browse. Select it to point to where you have the screen shot as a jpg and submit.

	15-09-2003 00:58									#33
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I suppose I'd better write something. OK, turn 1, the scout goes North (lucky ******* Dominae, ****** East, why East?). Mecca is founded on the spot. I started researching Bronze Working at 0% in the hope of getting warrior code or mysticism early. Warrior code would enable an opportunistic early archer rush which I think should be kept as an option for every expansionistic civ and Mysticism would allow an early beeline for Monarchy. It really isn't worth it researching either on these settings even if you don't get warrior code in 3750BC and mysticism in 3500BC like I did.

I met America in 3700BC and did the usual trade. They were too far away to think about rushing so, after Mecca built 2 scouts, it starting a granary in 3650BC. It should probably have built a worker first. In 3500BC, in addition to getting Mysticism from a hut, I got a settler from a hut near Mecca. With the possibility of 2 cities on rivers going for Granaries, I hoped to have enough commerce to gain by actually researching so started polytheism at 100%. I don't know if others who've researched polytheism at 10% really intend to swordsman rush soon but I wouldn't so what use is 200-300 gold?

I Met Japan in 3350BC and Carthage in 3000BC. I was lucky enough to get a couple more techs from huts (Horseback riding and Mathematics.)

quote: Originally posted by Dominae I suppose I could gift them the techs in order to increase the research rate, but that's a bit advanced and against the spirit of this game, IMO.

Why? Oh well. In 3950BC, I gifted warrior code, mysticism and mathematics to Carthage. I think they don't have contact with America and Japan and hope that I might be able to block the isthmus and stop them. I wanted to ensure that the AI would actually research Iron Working and Writing while we're messing about with Monarchy. It seemed a sensible plan to aim to trade with the Carthaginians into the next era where their UU is not so intimidating while keeping Japan and America behind so they can be finished off quickly.

Mecca built a granary in 3050BC, allowing it to build settlers in 2750BC, 2590BC, 2350BC and next turn. Medina happened to be at 999 so I aimed for a 3,3.5 ring. It does seem a bit close and I'd imagine that a palace jump would be a good idea eventually. That would likely leave just a 1 tile hole. But it did allow me to spend hours micromanaging . Medina built a granary too and a couple of workers.

Annoyingly, the final screenshot is on page 1 so why not have it again. This'll have a 50-50 chance of actually working, if it doesn't try page 1:


I'm doing very well on tech, having all second tier techs apart from Writing and being only 25 turns from Monarchy. No other civ has polytheism and the Americans and Japanese are reasonably behind. I've 5 cities with a settler coming this turn. The only improvements I've built are 2 garanries with a third and at least one barracks on the way. My army of 3 warriors, 2 regular and 1 conscript would probably need augmenting fast.

But it's a reasonable position.

	15-09-2003 01:39									#34
	Support Apolyton

Dominae: great post, although I knew some of the tricks I would have never applied them in such a consequence (as you can see from the results

vmxa1: I do have a screen capture program I just didnt know how to include the save (and the picture) in my text. Thank you anyhow.

	15-09-2003 02:20									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Nor Me OK, turn 1, the scout goes North (lucky ******* Dominae, ****** East, why East?).

Check out Aeson's scouting thread. Plus, I could see Grassland to the East, but only Plains to the North. I just like Grassland better.

Yes, I admit, this was lucky.

quote: I don't know if others who've researched polytheism at 10% really intend to swordsman rush soon but I wouldn't so what use is 200-300 gold?

Just keeping my options open, really. I'm also used to Emperor, where reseraching techs at 10% is far more common. I've played two Monarch-level games in the past two weeks, and I made the same mistake in both.


Dominae

	15-09-2003 02:49									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by plattfuss vmxa1: I do have a screen capture program I just didnt know how to include the save (and the picture) in my text. Thank you anyhow.

Did you read the last line? If you have captured a screen shot and saved it to some folder or desktop, you can simply attach it via the browse button. Same as you would for a save file. Just be sure it is one of the proper filetypes and is not too large. That is why I like the resize to 800. It makes them so they ar enot so large.
Good luck.

	15-09-2003 17:28									#37
	Increase the size of your Attachments

So, when do we (or the other teams, depending on how this is gonna work) pick a save and journey onward?

-Arrian

	15-09-2003 21:48									#38
	Remove this text

OK. Guess I must be the last one. I will do the game tonight. Sorry for the delay.

	15-09-2003 22:16									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by GodKing OK. Guess I must be the last one. I will do the game tonight. Sorry for the delay.

It's okay, you have until midnight EST on Tuesday.

	15-09-2003 22:23									#40
	Tired of ads?

OK, I hope this finally works. Screenshot from 2150 BC:

Attachment: 2150 bc.bmp
This has been downloaded 11 time(s).

	15-09-2003 22:26									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

well, not quite. But at least now I know how to attach the save.

Attachment: plattfuss - opportunist - 2150 bc.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	15-09-2003 22:27									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It works, but next time, try to save your file as a .jpg, it's much lighter than a .bmp... And the image will appear automatically...

--Kon--

	16-09-2003 07:36									#43
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

4000: After using scout, find Game. Move settler #9 (shielded grassland, on river). Moved worker to nearby cow.
3950: Started to irrigate cow. First goodie hut, Bronze Working. Researching Alpha. Producing a second scout. Maximizing gold til I get enough pop and then will switch to do my own research.
3900: Moved scout E.
3850: Moved scout E.
3800: Moved scout N.
3750: Moved scout N. Scout #2 done. Moved N. Started scout #3. Started Road on cow.
3700: Moved #2 N. #1 N
3650: #1 N. #2 NW
3600: #1 N. Second Hut in view. #2 NW
3550: #1 popped hut, warrior. #2 spotted hut #3. Scout #3 done, started on temple for culture and the fact that there are no lux and enemies nearby that I can see yet.
3500: Scout #1 sees outline of Lt. Blue border (Americans?), Scout #2 gets us Warrior Code from hut, and also finds Furs near us. The Americans? Are still far enough away that I am keeping the build as a temple. Scout 3 going S.
3450: Scout #3 finds and pops hut #4, giving us Masonry. Contacted the Americans, only 10 gold, no techs. Left the scout in their territory hoping they will send their worker into Washington next turn (tech for worker trade – excellent for us). Our warrior, Unga, spots a hut and starts going towards it.
3400: Trick didn’t work with the Americans. Moved the scout next to their worker this turn (hoping, I do this trick often early in the game, and the more aggressive the AI is set to the more likely it will work.) Scout #2 sees Green border, Japan? Scout #3 generally going south.
3300: Met japan. Will try the same trick. Americans sent an undefended settler going north. I may try and play games with it if Unga can get there in time. Unga popped his hut, and got 25 gold. Traded masonry and pottery to Japan for the Wheel and 10 (all) their gold.
3250: Trick didn’t work again. Darn. A warrior from Carthage appeared to my south. The Temple is done next turn, so I still have time to build a defender prior to him getting close. Better send #3 through that jungle. Traded the Wheel and Warrior Code for Alphabet and 35 gold (he must have found a goodie hut). America still only has their lousy 10 gold. Japan nothing at all. Researching towards ligature for the GL.
3200: Not much. Minor scouting. Dropped research down to 10% (didn’t change time) and added 10% lux to keep our new 3rd pop happy. Will now pop out a spear in 3 turns. Gotta love the micro-management when you are this small. Moving worker to road-to the game. (both cows roaded and irrigated). Will probably chop down the forest, max out the growth, and turn this city into a worker/settler factory. Granary? Will have to think on. May try for the pyramids.
3150: Nothing much
3100: After looking at my options, it appears that I will grow to size4 in 2 turns. I can build another defender, granary, barracks, or a settler. I think that there is enough unexplored land, particularly with the Americans also having scouts, to spend the 2 turns and get another scout, especially with my one scout stuck in the jungle looking for where that dam warrior from carthage came from. No huts for a while also. Started chopping the game tree. Done in 10 turns. Better time it well so it is useful.
3050: Not much, but it looks like that dam jungle is turning into forest.
3000: nada. Scout #4 looking at the little areas I skipped earlier near HQ.
2950: nil.
2900: Scout #4 sees a horse near us by the flood plains. Good. Might need them soon, particularly with japan near us. Can see the carthage cultural border. Good. Bout time.
2850: scouting
2800: Scouting
2750: HQ builds first settler. Move 8,8,8 to place him on the river, between the hills. Might move him around later. I make a conscious decision to generally ignore rings figuring that most people will not. I will just place my setters where I want them. Drop Lux slider (forgot to check on how things were doing at size 4 with a spear… oops. Guess Micro Management is only useful if you actually remember to use it).
2710: not much
2670:just hitting click
2630: Twohills founded. Start on barracks.
2590: Forest cut, and helps with a granary (nothing better IMHO). Mining
2550: Boring.
2510: Click
2470: click
2430: Scout #4 ends turn next to a new barb encampment with 2 warriors – oops. Probably gonna loose him next turn.
2390: Yep. Lost him.
2350: Darn, barb next to Twohills. Gonna loose all my work on the barracks, don’t so how I can do anything else. I was hoping they would wait another couple of turns before they show up near me. Guess I cannot play this one that sloppy. Bad luck with the goodie huts also. Haven’t found any for quite a while. Probably all gone I am afraid.
2310: Nope – they took 128 gold instead. Nothing to trade for. Might just do science. Crap, forgot to change to add the Lux back. HQ into disorder trying to build a worker. Gotta pay attention. However, I doubt that this will be our game as others have done quite a bit better IMHO.
2270: not much 2nd worker.
2230: Still, not much.
2190: click
2150: click

All around – 2 cities, including a super giant potential for a capitol. Settler on his way. Military is very weak. Lost 2 scouts to barbs. Accidentally played to 1990 as I was just clicking…. And didn’t get a proper save. Scouted Quite a bit more than other players – but only uncovered a couple of horses. All around, I played this round very poorly (by not paying attention and ignoring our military) considering our good start.

Attachment: gk, 1990 bc.sav
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	17-09-2003 08:59									#44
	Time to start the decision process Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Well it is almost midnight EST so I'm going to go ahead and officially declare the first turn block over. Now we can start the process of deciding which saves will begin the next turn block. As seen from the poll in the other thread it has been decided to have one other team decide on each team's turn block. Therefore the opportunist team would choose for the spaceship team and in turn the domination team will choose for the opportunist team

In the spaceship DAR thread please post your preference for the next turn save for the team you have been assigned. It is also encouraged, though not mandatory, to discuss and critique the individual saves while posting your preference. The time period for discussing and posting your preference will last until 23:59 EST Thursday, and the next turn block will begin on Friday.

Please note that in the event of a tie by the end of the decision process either myself or Nuclear Master will break the tie if I am not around on Thursday (unlikely).

	18-09-2003 00:12									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Dominae, some questions:

1) 9999 is equal to 411 and 633?

2) Your two western cities are at 2-tile spacing?

3) If you had an MP in Mecca would you need the luxury setting?

4) You currently have no barracks?

Superb DAR.

	18-09-2003 00:18									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Can someone add up the corruption from Arrian's CP, adn show me how those three cities are equal?

	18-09-2003 00:20									#47
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Excellent DAR Dominae Reading your reports is always a pleasure, there are always tips and other bits of info that noobs and vets alike appreciate.

I will download the saves later to check them out one by one before I vote. Looking good guys!

	18-09-2003 00:23									#48
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Theseus Can someone add up the corruption from Arrian's CP, adn show me how those three cities are equal?

Tiles N,S,W,E count as 1.5, tiles NE,SE,NW,SW count as 1. Thus,

Baghdad 1.5+1.5+1+1=5
Damascus 1+1+1+1+1=5
Medina 1.5+1.5+1+1=5

btw, tiles round down (that is, 7.5 is the same as 7), didn't know this until Dom pointed it out, and after testing, works.

	18-09-2003 00:24									#49
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Theseus 1) 9999 is equal to 411 and 633?

I moved my Settler 9 at the beginning, so that's 999 and not 9999. All those three cities are either at distance 3 or 3.5 from the capital, and so fall into the same ring.

quote: 2) Your two western cities are at 2-tile spacing?

Yep. I decided to do a 3 ring and a 5 ring, meaning that some of my cities would be only two tiles apart. This may be excessive on this map and difficulty, but I wanted to show off what RCP can really do. Even if it's only 2 tiles between cities, the cities in the first two rings should still have enough workable tiles, since many at distance 5 are coastal.

quote: 3) If you had an MP in Mecca would you need the luxury setting?

Good question! I'm not really sure. I admit that I'm a bit of an extremist when it comes to MP: I rarely use them. I rather put my units toward my borders, where they can cause mischief. Also, MPs would probably be Warriors (I like to wait for Barracks to build Spearmen), and I want to use Horsemen on this map instead of upgrading to Swordsmen. If we were playing, say, Rome, I would probably use more MPs.

quote: 4) You currently have no barracks?

I'm opportunistically going "pure builder" and seeing where that gets me. I figure if I can keep the Barbs off my back, my two pump cities should claim enough land that I'll be the strongest civ despite poor military. I do actually have two cities building Barracks (just in case), but that might change depending on how safe I feel.


Dominae

	18-09-2003 00:31									#50
	Inflate your Upload Space

Despite my fear of creating a "too-easy" early starting position, I think this whole game is shaping up to be fun and informative so far. We have a wide ranging group of starts and people can learn something from each one. Whatever else happens in this game a first 40 turns example is something that will come out of it. Though I personally hope everyone will see it through to the end. With the sheer amount of civ knowledge floating around in the DAR threads I can't wait to see how the rest of the game is handled.

	18-09-2003 00:50									#51
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

When I first read Dominae's DAR, I was going to ding him.

I would not have thought of going pure builder as opportunistic (to me, the word seems to indicate balance), but I understand it now as presented...

Rather than balance military and economic production at this stage of the game, the opportunity lies in taking advantage of the assets at hand and MAKING THE BET to be a voracious early builder.

No different than an opportunistic Settler bop, in a certain way.

Hmmm... still have to think more about the others.

	18-09-2003 02:47									#52
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wow Dominae! I must say that UP in your game is almost a given after a start like that!

And with all those tips, I must say that we should take the format of Dominae's DAR as a model for future rounds.

	18-09-2003 04:36									#53
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

All Hail General charlie_six from the Domination Team!

Hi all, here's my laydown. I had alot of free time ...as you can tell lol

-note: when i say exploit I don't mean exploit in a game sence, I mean it in a figurative sence!


BRC-

-Exploiting the Expansionist Civ: Excellent job doing that. I mean this guy has a scout all the way down past carthage, and one by the japanese.

-Tech trading/Exploiting: Good job, leader in tech, and other known civs are poor.

-Building improvements/units: My God man, you are in a great position to stop the japanese and start settling towards them. Best offensive positioning
I've seen yet of units. Only thing holding you back a lil is keeping all those warriors back in place of temples, (ok only 3 heh)
Building: The thing that worries me is not getting temples up on your S, E, and NE cities. Why? the culture fight. Temples expand your zone of control, and while blocking the Japanese
the Americans will be on your doorstep soon. Sure you can kill them later, but that will mean using precious units that could be used to nail the coffin shut on the japanese. Remember Carthage will
be coming soon along the choke point S, and you definately don't want to get tangled up with them anytime soon. I consider temples a projection of military power, (like a unit hehe), Temples claim land
and prevent me from obliterating an annoying city that sets down there. Like Sun Tzu says, "the best way to win a war is to never have one" ..or something like that.

Overall this solution is the best one to contain the japanses early. Nail some settlers, wait till osaka gets pop 2, then sieze it. Get peace, block SW of osaka till you get a city up, bang japanese is a paper tiger,
letting you focus on containment of america and carthage, while expanding the nice rivers. Disadvantage is having america develop too much and possibly become dominant.



Arrian-

-Exploiting the Expansionist civ: Great use of scouts, you have a great current operating picture, (COP) ..heh nuther acronym for ya.
Getting the settler was huge, scouting payed off!

-Tech trading/Exploiting: Buying that worker was great! ps anyon e know what triggers a civ to put workers on the table? Anyway, trading resulted with a tech lead. Could
sell off some tech for cash, but with 382 gold I would have to ask why also.

-Building improvements/units: Woohoo! fighting the culture fight with temples! Grab that land! Also, the go/nogo decision on building a granary or not
I thought was excellent. Extremely efficient.
Units: Great positioning overall. The settler is the key player in your scheme. Grabbing a luxury, and blocking settlement of the japanese. The military is positioned for a settler ambush opportunity for america. Only
thing I see is you could have pulled a warrior or 2 from your civ for a better ambush/blocking opportunity of the japanese. Only disadvantage I see is not having
enough military up by osaka to prevent your new fur city from being cut off


Overall, excellent opportunist thinking, and in my of course non-expert opinion hehe, you set the best conditions to accomplish the best big opportunity which is siezing the fur, and denying the japanese settlement of the
river network. Only disadvantage I see is you will need to make a decion soon: Build your cities, and let the japanese slip through, or build a few more units to stop/slow settlement of the japanese to settle the rivers


Dominae-

-Exploiting the Expansionist Civ: Masterful work, using the trait of the expansionist civ for capital placement was the best move of all the teams I think. Used 2 scouts which seemed the perfect balance for this terrain

-Tech Trading/Exploiting: Great use of trading, etc. Have a tech lead. Question: by having low research, is your goal to slow down the tech advances?(said in your tip you control pace), and if so why? just wondering

-Building Improvements: Again, masterful work, and I learned alot from your play actually. I think you built the most efficient of everyone in the AU...hands down lol.

-Units: Being from the domination team, I experienced various emotional states when analyzing your units. At first, of course shock and disdain, (1 spearman is he mad!). Then after looking at it all, awe, (wow it's not even risky,
if a barb shows up he's right, just make a defensive unit, he has plenty of reaction time), then affirmation, (this is hands down the best way to get your civ goin, I'll be using this technique definately)
The thing still nagging me is, what about the fur up by osaka? I just see a missed opportunity there, that outweighs having to do without 1 city at the core during this time. With a settler/spearman and say 3 military units-in one stroke
you could get the fur, sieze osaka, and confine the japanese to that penninsula, and settle the river network. With the current unit setup, you dont have that capability.

Overall, hands down the best devlopment of the starting location, and city management. If it isn't perfect, I'd say it's pretty darn close. Only disadvantage I see is as mentioned before, a missed opportunity to stop settlement of
japan cold, and a luxury gain in one step.
gain a luxury


Nor Me-

-Exploiting the expansionist civ: Excellent work, so that's 3 scouts total? Using 3 enanbled you to get a great COP also, (current operating picture). On thing tho: why didn't you leave a scout or something at the S choke point of carthage?
That may come back to haunt you, especially if you assume carthage hasn't slipped past you yet. Scouts can plug that hole great.

-Tech Trading/Exploiting: Of all the folks in the team here, looks like you are on top. Looks like you want to keep a fast pace of techs, and gifting them off will do just that, so that's good

-Building improvements: Medina and Najran placement kinda confuses me and I'll tell ya why: (please respond if you have time, don't take offense I am not the sharpest stick)
1. Theres a ton of food by the horse location, why didn't you put it near there? You have a good city and have horse capability. As you've picked up, going mounted will enable you to more opportunities in this spread out situation
2. Purpose of Najran so close? Also, it's building a barracks - why?

-Units: great balance of defense and efficency. One critical thing tho already mentioned: need somthing to plug that S choke point. If you havent had a scout with eyes on it for a while, a more reasoble assumption is that there is a carthage
warrior running around on your side
Now I'm not saying this just cuz I'm from the domination side of the house....oki maybe that has a lil to do with it... but not having a unit or 2 at the ready for a settler ambush for the japanese I see as having major implications. Look at
those rivers and fur up by them. They are going to be breeding like mad and be on your doorstep in no-time. The line of osaka's S zone of control, the beaver, to the fish on the coast is key terrain. That is the gate to the nice rivers and gold and fur.
Seizing/stopping thier expansion at that "gate" is vital, and we need to set the conditions for that action.
And lastly on the american front, not having at least a warrior to stop a settlement taking or getting near your iron puts you at a disadvantage.

Overall, you are the tech monkey. With monarchy on the horizon that would be the biggest advantage over everybody. The biggest disadvantage I see is it is looking gloomy for land for you. The other civs will be settling on your doorstep, and you will have to
fight them back. Win land through denial, and blocking/siezing key terrain, then you never have to fight in the first place. Like Sun Tzu says: "The best way to win a war is to not fight one" ..or something like that.


GodKing-

-Exploiting the expansionist civ: Great exploration, you are the only one who made 4 scouts I think. 4 scouts may have been overkill tho, and you might have been better off producing 2. You have a great COP, (current operating picture), but you
did not plug the S choke point. This hurt you, as you can see there is a american scout with an open path to carthage. I point here I can share, is examine the terrain, (I don't play ex civ's alot and found that you can really get a jump on this
sice you have a great view of the world). For me, when I see narrow land, all these bells and whistles go off in my head to control it, thru a unit/or zone of control. Why? Because whoever owns a choke point, controls information and settlement, and manuever of
an entire continent. Being near one is a golden opportunity.

-Tech Trading/Exploiting: From talking to the other civs, you could still trade some. In addition, japan has a worker you could have bought. This would have saved you from building your own. I dunno if you have a thing against trading tech or not. I used to, until I
played emperor and diety heh. As Dominae said, at this level we control tech pace, so trading isnt bad. Its also a good way to bankrupt other civs.

-Building improvements/units: The HQ is a nice built up productive city. I think you would have better luck having twohills building military units than a barracks tho. A couple regular warriors could raise alot more heck and block japans advance than a veteran one 24
24 turns from now. In 24 turns they will be next door.

-Units: I was able to scamble the spearman to protect the 2 workers and settler near that invading barb, but you lost some precious productivity in doin so. As much as a pain it is, it's best to have an escort with settlers. My technique for timing is build/have the escort then build
a settler.

Overall, a great picture of the world, and a solid capital. Advantage is great use of settler-sending him to the american side to slow the american settlement rate. Disadvantage is too few cities and units/unit positioning. I'm not really big on the circle or whatever the acronyms are,
(just take a look at my game in domination, I just have 2 cities 2), but I'm going to use more of that technique and suggest that you would too. I know in my games, especially at higher levels, my civ grows too sloooo off the bat.




-Decision from General Charlie_six:

Arrian

-Why

Only civ capable to exploit the opportunity of siezing furs, and stopping japanese settlement in one swoop, with minimal resources used.

-Analysis: please refer to map. Lets look at key terrain.
1. Here's the key terrain on the continent. Whoever owns this will dominate the continent. (actually I should have extanded the circle a lil bit NE also). It's just a matter of time 2. The line. Whoever owns this line, will stop the japanese from advancing. If you control this, you control japanese expansion. Enabling you to settle the key rivers. If you do not control it, the japan will and settle it like crazy
3. Fur, luxury. Whoever owns the line, owns this. Owning this would be good.
4. The screen, (the lightning bolt line) It doesn't pay to stop the americans, since settlement of this area is slow, and is generally worse terrain than 1. But, in order to fully settle 1. you will need to limit thier expansion until you have what you want
5. The block of the carthage. Setting one unit is fine. The trigger to build a city near there is when they put a city down there.

While Dominae has the best civ start I'd say, Arrian is in a better position to exploit this opportunity window. If it is not exploited, I'm afraid to control that key terrain in 1., you will be fighting japan from here to Christmas. Inaction now will mean an expensive and unpleasant war
later, Arrian is in the best position, (possibly only position) to accomplish this. With one stroke, (and a settle ambush or 2 hehe) I envision Arrian:
1. Founding his new fur city!
2. Denying Japan of the key terrain!
3. Settling the best undeclared land on the continent!

All accomplished through at most a minor skirmish vs a long war. I see this as more advantagous and less costly than Dominae's solution of a masterful build. By the time you send folks N, you will be forced to find scraps of land to settle, or take them from Japan.

HAIL LORD ARRIAN! BUILD YOUR FUR CITY BROTHER!

ahem sorry I get a little carried away sometimes. good luck!

Attachment: oparrian2150.jpg
This has been downloaded 69 time(s).

Last edited by charlie_six on 18-09-2003 at 04:49

	18-09-2003 04:51									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

This discussion phase is already turning out better than I expected. It's great getting the viewpoints everyone has and the reasons why they have them. Nice detailed analysis charlie_six. You may be new to Apolyton University, but you've already got the "spirit" of the AU down.

	18-09-2003 05:09									#55
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Wow, charlie_six... you sorta opened my eyes to the big picture there!!

I think a lot of us, especially in the critical early phase of the game, spend a LOT more time making economic or military TACTICAL decisions than thinking big picture.

I don;t mean that to deny that people think of how they will gain game-breaking advantage, but it's a focus more on the *mechanics* than your points about the fur and Japanese expansion. Probably an outgrowth of many of us here in 'poly having spent close to 2 years just figuring stuff out and teaching it to newer players (sometimes again and again ).

Great analysis overall, btw, although I think you might be OVER-estimating the impact of a few things (the furs, Japan, and the chokepoint) and UNDER-estimating the value of others (exponentially increasing production power, tech power).

This is HARD.

	18-09-2003 05:11									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Dominae, I've been meaning to ask: did I understand correctly that you delayed popping huts to get the first tier tech trades done with nearby AI civs first?

If yes, were you not concerned that they would beat you to the huts?

	18-09-2003 05:22									#57
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Nor Me, why is Najran where it is? 2 tiles from each of Mecca and Medina... a camp?

	18-09-2003 06:08									#58
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I asked the same question Theseus and am wondering why also...I thought it was a camp city too but not really sure..

You're right i prolly underestimate production advantage and overestimate japan.. ..I just like drawing cool things on maps hehe. guess Im the Madden of poly

Last edited by charlie_six on 18-09-2003 at 06:17

	18-09-2003 07:22									#59
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ver cool, c_s... glad you are here!!

(And where have you been all this time? You know your game, although it doesn't quite feel like the flavor here in the 'poly Strat forum.)

And again, I loved your observations about the north... I am re-visiting my own block in that light, but think it is less of a concern in a domination-oriented game, where CLEARLY the Japanese are the first Horse-priority (Toku and us [we?] are gonna have a little chat shortly ).

	18-09-2003 09:19									#60
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have updated the first post with the current voting for the teams. I will keep the post updated throughout the day. The deadline for voting is 23:59 EST Thursday night. Please have all your votes cast by then.