16-09-2003 05:04									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Expand on it? Ok.

The mac is a very user friendly computer. It has all the applications, all the devices you need in a computer. Communications, stability, creative content, etc. It's easy to network, easy to use... I play Max Payne on mine. OS X is oriented towards making your files easy to manage, with an excellent system of organization.

And a G5 would certainly be able to run any games released for the mac at all.

I'd reccomend going to the nearest apple store if you're serious about this and trying OS X out, and talking with the people who work there about your concerns.

	16-09-2003 05:07									#32
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm too lazy to track down an apple store, thats why I'm asking you fine people.

	16-09-2003 10:34									#33
	Got spare money?

I think you'd be better off getting a plastic couch or something.

	16-09-2003 10:37									#34
	Tired of ads?

Go with the standard.....No reasons to get a mac over a PC...

	16-09-2003 13:05									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www I would say etheir buy a new PC or upgrade. A mac is not very good with games and PC is much faster then macs. I used to like macs a lot untill I started to use PC more and how much more games they have on a PC compared to a MAC. I am glad I have a PC instead of a MAC.

OK - he's being offered a G5, which is probably the fastest home computer you can currently buy. It's also a 64 bit system, which means that it will have a longer useful life than a 32 bit Intel.

If you like Photoshopping then there is no question about it: the G5 will unzip its trousers and piss all over any Windows based computer when it comes to that sort of thing. I did read somewhere that a guy was getting absolutely evil performance out of UT, but I haven't tried it myself.

Games: less games, but pretty much all the good ones.

Viruses: none, nada, zilch. There just aren't any Mac OS X viruses.

Spyware: none, nada, zilch. There just isn't any Mac OS X spyware AFAIK.

GUI: way better than MS's poorly designed and cheap looking interface.

Aesthetics: no contest.

Don't be a goof. If they want to buy you a G5, take it. If you want to keep your PC and upgrade it then save up the cash and do so. Why not have your cake and...

	16-09-2003 13:07									#36
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Don't be a goof. If they want to buy you a G5, take it. If you want to keep your PC and upgrade it then save up the cash and do so. Why not have your cake and...

This makes a hell of a lot of sense. Suprising, coming from a philosopher.

	16-09-2003 17:03									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: If you like Photoshopping then there is no question about it: the G5 will unzip its trousers and piss all over any Windows based computer when it comes to that sort of thing. I did read somewhere that a guy was getting absolutely evil performance out of UT, but I haven't tried it myself.

adobe's shifted its emphasis to windows systems.
this isn't as true as it used to be~ the only things that mac is still king of, at least in terms of productions, is video, sound, and publications.

quote: Games: less games, but pretty much all the good ones.

and some stinkers too. but also some great classics, like Exile.

quote: Viruses: none, nada, zilch. There just aren't any Mac OS X viruses.

wrong. there are viruses. they're just not very common.

quote: Spyware: none, nada, zilch. There just isn't any Mac OS X spyware AFAIK.

most spyware is ie-tied, which is why.

quote: GUI: way better than MS's poorly designed and cheap looking interface. Aesthetics: no contest.

this is up to taste. while i usually like apple's aesthetics, i've always hated the imacs: both the old ugly fruit ones, and the new ugly dome ones.
as for interface, that's up to taste. i like 'em all (kde, windows, mac), so.

	16-09-2003 17:19									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed adobe's shifted its emphasis to windows systems.

For things like Premiere, because they couldn't compete with Final Cut Pro.

Other than that, they daren't slack off their Mac user base or someone else will just take all that money.

quote: this isn't as true as it used to be~ the only things that mac is still king of, at least in terms of productions, is video, sound, and publications.

It's truer than ever since the G5 came out - there isn't a better desktop for photoshop performance.

quote: wrong. there are viruses. they're just not very common.

I've never heard of an OS X virus. There are about 50 Classic Mac viruses, but no OS X ones I've found. And I've looked around.

quote: this is up to taste.

Ease of use is not a matter of taste.

And I might add - no endless patching to avoid MS security flaws.

It's a wonderful world....

	16-09-2003 17:49									#39
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: For things like Premiere, because they couldn't compete with Final Cut Pro. Other than that, they daren't slack off their Mac user base or someone else will just take all that money.

they didn't stop development, and i never said they did.
but they're optimizing more for x86 now, rather than ppc.

quote: It's truer than ever since the G5 came out - there isn't a better desktop for photoshop performance.

i'll wait to see the photoshop benchmarks before i judge.

quote: I've never heard of an OS X virus. There are about 50 Classic Mac viruses, but no OS X ones I've found. And I've looked around.

virus writers want to go for the big game. which means windows. that's why windows has so many, and mac has so few: not as many people use osx.
now, to assume that because macs don't have viruses, it means that you don't have to invest in virex or similar software, that would be a great folly. i'm sure there are mac viruses out there: just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist.

quote: Ease of use is not a matter of taste.

i don't see why people have so much trouble with KDE or Windows. ease of use depends on what you grew up learning. i grew up learning windows 3.1, so win9x and nt interfaces pose no trouble. from that, i found k's interface hard to master initially, but now that i know how it works, it's simple and easy as pie. same with osx.
"ease of use" here is more illusory than anything.

quote: And I might add - no endless patching to avoid MS security flaws.

like i said, microsoft's security flaws are there simply because it's most used and you have idiot users.
if mac os x were the most used os in the world, you can bet your ass that we'd be hearing of patches from mac every single week.

quote: It's a wonderful world....

for the first time in a while, i can say that too.

	16-09-2003 18:03									#40
	Tired of ads?

I would say go pc - but then I am a gamer.
Being a gamer, a pc is the only way for me to go.

	16-09-2003 19:09									#41
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I like the cake and eat it too idea.

But I'm gonna list off a few programs here that I use on a regular basis. Are there mac versions?

Trillian
Winamp
Word
Excel
Outlook
Adobe Photodeluxe
Winzip/WinRar
Callwave
Audiocatalyst (or other program to make MP3s from CDs)
Kazaa
Print Shop
Wordpad/Notepad
Adobe reader
AOL
IE
IRC/ICQ

Games:
Colonization
MOO1
Civ2
AoE2
UO
Baldur's Gate
Alpha Centuri
CtP
Doom2
X-Wing
NES and SNES Emulators

Hmm, I guess I don't use an extensive amount of programs. I suppose I could find replacements for all the non-game programs I use. My question though is whether files would be compatable from my current versions and a Mac version. I've got a lot of files that I don't want to loose, like Word docs, Excel sheets, MP3s, pictures, movies, especially logs from Trillian, ICQ and IRC.

But yea, I could have both, and it'd be much easier to save up $300 to upgrade my PC than $3000 to buy a Mac. Then I'd have a computer for my office, when I get an office that is.

	16-09-2003 19:16									#42
	Inflate your Upload Space

You could ask your folks to buy you a $3K pc instead. Heck, just ask them to buy yu the aprts. Go pick up a copy of PC Gamer or Computer Gaming World and build yourself a dream machine.

All your Office files would be readable by MS Office for Mac, btw.

	16-09-2003 19:34									#43
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Trillian -no, but ichat is roughly equivalent.
Winamp -no, but macamp and itunes can do that job.
Word -yes. part of ms office v.x
Excel -yes. see above.
Outlook -yes, but it's called entourage instead.
Adobe Photodeluxe -yes.
Winzip/WinRar -no. use stuffit expander instead.
Callwave -don't know what this is.
Audiocatalyst (or other program to make MP3s from CDs) -itunes.
Kazaa -no. there are several filesharing programs, but i don't know their names.
Print Shop -not sure what this is.
Wordpad/Notepad -yes, but named different.
Adobe reader -yes.
AOL -yes.
IE -yes.
IRC/ICQ -yes.

the only game i know for certain is smac. there is a mac version. some of the older ones might run of virtual pc, though, especially if they don't use directx.

Last edited by Q Cubed on 16-09-2003 at 19:39

	16-09-2003 19:39									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Ease of use is not a matter of taste.

Then surely when 95% of people prefer the Windows interface, that should end the discussion right there.

	16-09-2003 19:42									#45
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quote: Then surely when 95% of people prefer the Windows interface, that should end the discussion right there.

i don't know if its a case of "prefer" based on tastes; it's probably a preference derived from what they learned and what's most common.

and ease of use... sit a windows user in front of a mac. it'll be a while before s/he figures it out.
sit a mac use in front of xp. it'll be a while before s/he figures it out.
both of them will figure it out without any trouble, unless they're complete idiots/tech morons, in which case they shouldn't be allowed to open attachments in email. ever.

	16-09-2003 19:42									#46
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If you're going to buy a Mac, the only one worthwhile for your money will be a PowerBook.

I don't see the point in the G5, aside from being finally up to speed with mid-range PCs now, and low-end PCs in a few months.

If you want 64-bits, get an Athlon 64.

	16-09-2003 19:45									#47
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed i don't know if its a case of "prefer" based on tastes; it's probably a preference derived from what they learned and what's most common.

Right, because ease of use is a matter of taste as well.

Most of us probably find the idea of one menubar for all open applications, up at the top of the screen regardless of where the window it control is, harder to use than how Windows does it.

Some of us find the idea of randomly mixing running and non-running programs with the dock (without any text labels describing what it is) harder to use.

Some of us find the idea of not listing active windows, just active programs, harder to use.

	16-09-2003 20:08									#48
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I agree with Asher, the only Macs worth the money are the powerbooks (and they are very good).

	16-09-2003 20:39									#49
	Got spare money?

Instead of Kazaa you could use Gnutella or Hotlines (an oldie, but a goodie)

	16-09-2003 20:40									#50
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So if you go PC, are you just gonna tell em you don't want a G5, you want a PC?

	16-09-2003 20:50									#51
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Havent read the entire thread, but just so you know: Civ 2 stuff runs fine on macs...

As long as you have the game (civ 2 gold for mac isnt expensive though).

(With one exception, you need to drop image and audio files on a converter program available here on polly. Macs obviously has no problems with Wavs or Gifs, but for some reason the games programers thought it'd be neater if the mac version used "pict" and "Aif" files ). You also need to change one line in the game.txt if included in a PC scenario.

	16-09-2003 20:57									#52
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Mac versions that I know of:

Trillian - Sadly I don't think so
Winamp - No but there are equivalents
Word - Yup
Excel - Yup
Outlook - Not sure, I think so, if you really want to use it. Otherwise there are loads of programs like it...
Adobe Photodeluxe - Not sure, most of Adobe's program exists, but I am not sure what photodeluxe is.
Winzip/WinRar - "Zipit" works just fine for this
Callwave - No idea what this is.
Audiocatalyst (or other program to make MP3s from CDs) - I know there are programs that do this. Never used one myself though (if soundapp isn't capable of it that is).
Kazaa - There are file sharing clients for mac, I'm using one called "Poisened"
Print Shop - No idea what it is.
Wordpad/Notepad - Yup, not called the same thing but it ships with the system.
Adobe reader - Yup
AOL - Yup
IE - Yup
IRC/ICQ -Yup

Games:
Colonization - Yes
MOO1 - Yes
Civ2 - Yes
AoE2 - Yes
UO - What does UO stand for?
Baldur's Gate - Yes
Alpha Centuri - Yes
CtP - Yes (though not CtP 2)
Doom2 - I think so
X-Wing - Not sure
NES and SNES Emulators - Quite sure there are some, don't use any myself though.

I have mac versions of al the games listed as Yes except for CtP btw

	16-09-2003 21:04									#53
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

uo == ultima online.

	16-09-2003 23:45									#54
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP I like the cake and eat it too idea.

Don't listen to Asher's ranting, he just has G5 envy.

quote: But I'm gonna list off a few programs here that I use on a regular basis. Are there mac versions?

Here are the ones I know of..

Trillian - Fire; Proteus; MSN Messnger; Yahoo Messenger; ichat (AIM), etc.

Winamp - itunes is way better

Word
Excel
Outlook - all in Office X (Outlook is called Entourage on the Mac)

Winzip/WinRar - Stuffit

Audiocatalyst (or other program to make MP3s from CDs) - itunes again

Kazaa - there is an OS mac Kazaa client called Poisoned

Wordpad/Notepad - Text edit; Stickies

Adobe reader - Yes

AOL - Yes

IE - Yes, but Camino, Safari and Omniweb are better

IRC/ICQ - Yes; loads of clients

Games:
Colonization - I think so
MOO1 - ?
Civ2 - Yes
AoE2 - Yes I have it
UO - ?
Baldur's Gate - Yes I have it
Alpha Centuri - Yes I have it
CtP - Yes
Doom2 - Yes
X-Wing - don't know
NES and SNES Emulators - don't know

quote: Hmm, I guess I don't use an extensive amount of programs. I suppose I could find replacements for all the non-game programs I use. My question though is whether files would be compatable from my current versions and a Mac version. I've got a lot of files that I don't want to loose, like Word docs, Excel sheets, MP3s, pictures, movies, especially logs from Trillian, ICQ and IRC.

Apart from the chat logs (which I don't know about) all of these will work. You may need to download the open source Movie Player for OS X to play some movies (free and good).

Looks like you shouldn't have to worry.

	16-09-2003 23:53									#55
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed uo == ultima online.

Not as far as I know. Mac people play Lineage which is same sort.

	17-09-2003 02:08									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Don't listen to Asher's ranting, he just has G5 envy.

HAH.

My new rig I'm buying at the end of the month will have a maximum TOTAL noise of 25dB (a third of the noise the G5s generate).

It'll have an Athlon 64 FX-51 (quite a bit faster than the G5s -- it's a 2.2GHz Opteron), 1GB of dual-channel 400MHz DDR (ECC), a 256MB Radeon 9900 Pro (R360).

And it can actually play Half-Life 2.

Envy I have not.

Did I mention my system will still cost considerably less than a G5?

	17-09-2003 06:44									#57
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: NES and SNES Emulators - Quite sure there are some, don't use any myself though.

There are many. Emulation.net is the best site on the web for Mac emulators. You'll find everything you need there (except ROMs).

	17-09-2003 07:09									#58
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Games: Colonization - I think so MOO1 - ? Civ2 - Yes AoE2 - Yes I have it UO - ? Baldur's Gate - Yes I have it Alpha Centuri - Yes I have it CtP - Yes Doom2 - Yes X-Wing - don't know NES and SNES Emulators - don't know

If you went mac, wouldn't you need to actually buy a new version of all these games you already own?

	17-09-2003 07:53									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

"You'll find everything you need there (except ROMs)."

And a message to my PM box from you would help me rectify the needed rom problem...