29-09-2003 22:29									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Copy protected? Damn them! Do I look like a thief?

Yes.

	29-09-2003 23:54									#32
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My friend's neighbor got a copy of Temple of Elemental Evil and we borrowed it to check it out. The best thing about this game is the pretty CD's it comes on. Otherwise it should be named the Temple of Elemental Crap.

	30-09-2003 00:07									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have one of those in my bathroom.

	30-09-2003 01:11									#34
	Got spare money?

I read the gamespot review too, and these are the bugs people are clling game stoppers on the Interplay, Troika and Atari forums.

GOD WHY ARE THE GAMES I REALLY LOOK FORWARD TO ALWAYS SUCH CRAP!

-Jam

	30-09-2003 03:50									#35
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Jamski I read the gamespot review too, and these are the bugs people are clling game stoppers on the Interplay, Troika and Atari forums. GOD WHY ARE THE GAMES I REALLY LOOK FORWARD TO ALWAYS SUCH CRAP! -Jam

Might be because the games with alot of hype and expetancy can afford to go through with a shoddy release and still turn a profit, instead of being canceled or delayed like the lesser known ones.

	30-09-2003 09:50									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski GOD WHY ARE THE GAMES I REALLY LOOK FORWARD TO ALWAYS SUCH CRAP!

Hype disconnected with reality.

	30-09-2003 14:53									#37
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Tbh the hype for this game wasn't really that big. I mean, its for hardcore D&D fans.

	30-09-2003 17:44									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I hope they offer a download for us immoral Americans to reinstall all the stuff the censors made them take out.

Anyway after the MoO3 scam I don't buy anything till after its been run through the ringer a bit.

	30-09-2003 21:30									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Tbh the hype for this game wasn't really that big. I mean, its for hardcore D&D fans.

Like me And naturally us "hardcore fans" were being told for months how great it would be, and totally true to the rules and all that jazz... and then we rush out and buy it, thinking,
"YAY! Someone's finally made a D&D game for people that play D&D!"
Only to be sadly dissapointed, of course

The game's dead short too, compared to the IE games. It only took me about 15 hours. That's one and a half day's playing. (and one and half days reloading because its so buggy) Good value for 50 Euros, eh?

-Jam

	30-09-2003 21:56									#40
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Sadly, 15 hour games aren't that uncommon these days.

	30-09-2003 22:08									#41
	Inflate your Upload Space

That's why I like the open ended RPGs like Morrowind and Fallout or the straight throughs like Dungeon Seige and Final Fantasy. If I can't spend a hundred hours playing it, it's not worth my time.

	01-10-2003 08:09									#42
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15 hours? Bah! What a ripoff!

	01-10-2003 10:29									#43
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Jamski The game's dead short too, compared to the IE games. It only took me about 15 hours.

Darnit. Well thats a killer for me. Bugs I can handle as there's generally a patch out by the time it gets here but I can't see any recovery from something that major.

I don't suppose you ignored all "side-quests", etc?
Or does it have the mother-of-all editors for customising and adding in new playability?

	01-10-2003 11:30									#44
	Get a bigger avatar today!

This thread does nothing for my enthusiasm. I read a few reviews of Temple of Elemental Evil and the impression I received is that it's another shallow dungeon-crawl with pretty, souped-up graphics. I already had my fill of this sort of thing with Icewind Dale I/II (one for 2E AD&D, one for 3E). Actually, I already had my fill of this sort of thing back in the days of Senoir Diablo the First.

So I'm going to pass on it. The commentary reminds me of the Pool of Radiance II backlash. I'm appalled at the timidity of game publishers and designers these days. They show complete deference towards the amorphous attitudes of the "casual gamer" and ergo refuse to design anything that may alienate or unduly challenge him. This typically means creativity, novelty, character development, non-linear plot progression, moral quandaries, and text longer than two sentences gets eighty-sixed!

'Tis a real shame, because Arcanum was a wonderful, thoughtfully constructed role-playing game with a unique setting. And character customization? Arcanum is without peer on that score. Arcanum was marred by an unwieldy graphics engine but a lot of soul was poured into it. Oh well.

	01-10-2003 12:27									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: I don't suppose you ignored all "side-quests", etc?

Nope, but I suppose I could re-play with an evil party

quote: Or does it have the mother-of-all editors for customising and adding in new playability?

Nope.

quote: The commentary reminds me of the Pool of Radiance II backlash.

Its not THAT bad. At least it doesn't delete your HD or leave out rangers, bards, druids, feats, etc. It s just as buggy though. I'm hoping they make a sequel, as the frustration come from seeing how good it could have been.

-Jam

	01-10-2003 20:02									#46
	Increase the size of your Attachments

"Shallow" dungeon crawler? For being a dungeon crawler it's anything but shallow.

There's a patch confirmed now.

	01-10-2003 20:26									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

What, for download, or just that they're going to put one out?

	01-10-2003 21:10									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Araanor "Shallow" dungeon crawler? For being a dungeon crawler it's anything but shallow. There's a patch confirmed now.

Does it add another 15 hours of gameplay?

	01-10-2003 21:21									#49
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Yes, you can play it twice

-Jam

	01-10-2003 21:30									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Jamski Yes, you can play it twice -Jam

Wow, what a great new feature!

* DrSpike rushes to shops.

	01-10-2003 22:01									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm thoroughly enjoying it right now, despite the quirks (I hesitate to call them bugs when they don't stop me playing, just do things like make NPC followers a pain in the arse) but I'd definitely recommend waiting for the patch if you are thin skinned. Most of the bug list is concerned with things like masterwork armour subtracting 1 from your manoeuver rolls instead of adding it. No biggie for me, and the fan network is rushing out fixes for this sort of stuff already.

It is definitely THE best D&D implementation since the old gold box games imho. I want to see dozens more using this engine, it beats IE, NWN and the LH engines hollow. Being a recreation of an old Greyhawk module ToEE is not exactly hip deep in convoluted dialogue. The censors seem to have nobbled a lot of what Troika tried to add to the original, but their party alignment certainly leaves much scope for replaying.

I don't understand how you could play it through in 15 hours. Maybe you're just better at putting together uber D&D parties than I am and wading through the enemy? After 15 hours I was sneaking round the second level of the temple.

	01-10-2003 23:30									#52
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

From what it sounds like, this game plays alot like Fallout 2 pre-patch; playable but barely. Still waiting for the patch.

	02-10-2003 02:10									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: I don't understand how you could play it through in 15 hours. Maybe you're just better at putting together uber D&D parties than I am and wading through the enemy? After 15 hours I was sneaking round the second level of the temple.

I did spend some time re-rolling to get übercharacters, but its time saved on massive re-loading.

And yes, I AM quite good at making überparties, I have to admit. I just HATE having a party of gimps

So that's 15 hours to play through, not counting rerolls, CTD when enchanting items, reloads after bloody giant frogs for an hour (cool animation, I have to admit) and so on.

Actually, I'm kinda slowly warming to the game. Its a flawed work with a great "feel" to it. But as a "rules demon" I'm getting really ratty about all the things that don't work either as they should in the core rules, or as they were intended to work in the game.

BUT A PATCH IS COMING! YAY!

-Jam

	02-10-2003 22:12									#54
	Put an end to popups!

Looks like the fan patch is out and fixes a lot of the niggles. It also makes NPC's take only a share of the gold and not grab items. Downloading now!

	03-10-2003 16:55									#55
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Link?

-Jam

	03-10-2003 18:38									#56
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Circle of Eight Fan patch/mod 1.0

	03-10-2003 22:25									#57
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Thanks Grumbold. This CO8 guys are the bee's knees, really

-Jam

	07-10-2003 23:28									#58
	Full PM-box? Change here!

So what's the post patch verdict?

	09-10-2003 02:01									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I have to admit I've been distracted by the recent acquisition of Hearts of Iron - a "rebound" after ToEE. Tell you soon, after I get Barbarossa finished

-Jam

	10-10-2003 19:19									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I've been playing it like crazy. Its not a classic game but I'm very pleased with it all the same. Had Troika had the time to go wild on conversation and side quest stuff like in Arcanum it would be near perfect.