21-09-2003 11:43									#31
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Yep, things were better when the man was the boss, kids were seen and not heard (only when you wanted to see them) and women knew their place and had dinner ready at 6 or if/whenever the man of the house deigned to return, and if the ***** got out of line, a black eye or two would put her back in it. The one-trick pony rides again.

actually things were better back then, but I won't go into the details of it right now

	21-09-2003 14:29									#32
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Comrade Tassadar let's see you get 200.00 for one child and 600.00 for three right off the top, you get all the money comming into the house, the house, the car, the kids, all the joy of raising the children and watching them grow. All the first's, time of at the park, time off for yourself, freedom to do what you want in the day. Now how does that compare to the working parent?

Have you ever been around kids, blackice? Posts like that really make me wonder. Looking after kids at home is bloody hard work, frequently a frustrating and isolating experience too.

	21-09-2003 22:17									#33
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Lazarus and the Gimp Yes am raising my child and working, you?

The post comes from experience, the rest was a slap shot at the divorce industry. Even if I raised my child and worked and the mother did nothing, here in Canada she would get it all...

So tell me what did you do with your time when your infant slept most if not all of the day?

Now 3-5 years old that's different you have parks etc. 6-7 even less time for yourself but more fun...

So much for bloody hard work. Anyone who claims that simply does not get the enjoyment out of the entire child raising experience... Ya it's work but do not make it out to be harder than manual labor all day. That is simply rediculous...

quote: frequently a frustrating and isolating experience too

For fathers yes for mom's? I know none that find this, in fact I find your comment uneducated and lacking any understanding of mothers support networks... Single dads you bet most of them claim this.

	21-09-2003 22:26									#34
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by blackice Lazarus and the Gimp Yes am raising my child and working, you?

Yep. That makes two of us.

quote: So tell me what did you do with your time when your infant slept most if not all of the day?

She never did. In nearly 3 years I can count the number of uninterrupted nights on one hand. The most she's ever slept is 10 hours a day.

You see, what was true for you ain't necessarily true for others. Bear that in mind.

quote: Now 3-5 years old that's different you have parks etc. 6-7 even less time for yourself but more fun... So much for bloody hard work. Anyone who claims that simply does not get the enjoyment out of the entire child raising experience... Ya it's work but do not make it out to be harder than manual labor all day. That is simply rediculous...

I've done manual labour. I've raised kids. The raising kids was harder. More rewarding, but harder. However I expect you to reject that as you reject everything else failing to conform with what you see through your single-issue blinkers.

	21-09-2003 22:40									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker [W]hen have the courts made it a practice of granting custody to actual wife-beaters?

More often than you'd like to think. Spousal-abusers (male and female) are often much more assertive of their rights, while abusees (male and female) tend not to be, unless they've made the decision to break free.

	21-09-2003 22:52									#36
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berzerker, while a majority of all households may have dual incomes, statistically, men still do less than 50% of the work load around the house. You say that the reason men do less work at home is because they are at work. Rufus was discussing two-income families. The wife also goes to work, and when they get home, she tends to do more work around the house than the man.

Now, I think a large part of this has to do with the different opinions men and women have of cleanliness. When we think we're done, women tend to see a pig sty.

	21-09-2003 22:54									#37
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I don't reject your opinion, it's yours. Some parents find it hard some don't. You seem to reject that based on your single-issue blinkers.

Must be nice to have a child sleep only 10 hours out of 24. I was refering to the day by the way. Most parent I know would love that.

So maybe you could give more details as to what was hard?

1. Keeping the child occupied
2. Dishes
3. Laundry
4. Formula
5. Trips to stores
6. Trips to parks
7. Managing your own life while raising a child
8. ?

I have run out of difficult things maybe you could enlighten us?

	21-09-2003 22:56									#38
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quote: Originally posted by blackice 7. Managing your own life while raising a child

You have a life?

	21-09-2003 23:36									#39
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quote: Originally posted by blackice I have run out of difficult things maybe you could enlighten us?

Sure thing. There's coping with the sleep deprivation, the colic, the ear infections. There's the adjustments of the splints to treat her hip deformity whilst ignoring the screaming. There's the wife's post-caesarian infection and post-natal depression. There's the days when everything just gets thrown back in your face.

You see, when I was pushing a wheelbarrow everything had a clear finish line in sight. Each load was a clear step closer to finishing the job. That need not apply in parenting.

	21-09-2003 23:41									#40
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs A rare breed indeed, Diss: Emperor-level DL's

	22-09-2003 00:13									#41
	Got spare money?

Lazarus and the Gimp I feel for ya, you are doing a tough job and well it would seem.

Without insult do you really think your situation is the "normal" one per se?

Colic yes for 5 months i weathered that storm, trying at times but none the less the love for your child see the clear path.

quote: chegitz guevara You have a life?

A large one you? While I was raising my child I passed three courses. Most parents do lot's of other things besides raising thier children. Go figure....

	22-09-2003 00:25									#42
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My mom always made more money than my dad and worked longer hours, and she did far more to raise me and my brother than my dad did. She does far more work around the house, too. Everything would fall apart comepletely without her, while my dad's absence would simply be an inconvenience.

The crazy thing is that my dad is considered a great dad by the standards of our society. He does not drink or smoke, and he has never cheated on my mom or injured any of us. He has no expensive hobbies, and he helps out in the house, yard, and child raising whenever mom asks him to.

It's quite telling that a good mom is someone who does lots of good things, while a good dad is simply someone who refrains from causing harm. My dad is one of the best out there, but by an absolute measure he can't compare to my mom.

Most men don't deserve any more than they are getting. Men who are as good as the average mom are rare indeed. The law is right to recognise this.

	22-09-2003 01:52									#43
	Remove this text

hey I had a King level DL

actually technically Dissident is a DL, and I am an Emporer

	22-09-2003 04:46									#45
	Remove this text

Richard Bruns is that because in your house it is this way? So you measure all Dad's based on your own?

Heh limited exposure and thinking such as your own is why the laws are as thye are.

Don't get me wrong good mom's are great and in some house holds hard to find. Good Dad's are everywhere and in some house holds as yours hard to find.

I feel for ya buddy it's the luck of the draw getting great Dad's and great Mom's. Be happy with half but do not condem the rest for your misfortune...

	22-09-2003 06:16									#46
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quote: Originally posted by blackice So you measure all Dad's based on your own?

Sure. And pretty much every dad I know is worse than mine. I also know the statistics, and my dad is way better than the average American male in just about every respect. The problem is that the average is so bad that he can be way better than average and still not compare to my mom.

quote: Don't get me wrong good mom's are great and in some house holds hard to find. Good Dad's are everywhere and in some house holds as yours hard to find.

Are you implying that good dads are more common than good moms? That's rubbish, and plenty of good statistics have already been quoted to disprove it.

quote: do not condem the rest for your misfortune...

Stop being condescending, and stop insulting my dad because I was honest enough to look at how society's expectations differ. I clearly stated that I was lucky to have someone so good. By a relative measure, I have a good dad, but by an absolute measure he contributes less than my mom.

	22-09-2003 07:38									#47
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chegitz -

quote: More often than you'd like to think. Spousal-abusers (male and female) are often much more assertive of their rights, while abusees (male and female) tend not to be, unless they've made the decision to break free.

If the court doesn't know someone seeking custody is a wife-beater because the victim doesn't speak up, that ain't the court's fault.

quote: berzerker, while a majority of all households may have dual incomes, statistically, men still do less than 50% of the work load around the house. You say that the reason men do less work at home is because they are at work. Rufus was discussing two-income families. The wife also goes to work, and when they get home, she tends to do more work around the house than the man.

We were talking about single and dual income households. Obviously if you take both parents out of the home to earn what they need (and what the politicians need), then the mother on average will do more work because mothers are "naturally" keepers of the home.

blackice - No one here seems interested in addressing your opening post, they'd rather change the debate to which parent "works" more. Why I don't know, but the thread has become pointless...

Richard - what stats? I keep hearing about stats and never see any...