25-09-2003 18:08									#31
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quote: Without husband and unattached too...

this is where i hit you with a stick and say NO!
seriously, i wouldn't trust a kid with her at all. no kid should have to be raised in a household where the mother is so vitriolic.
then again, lotsa kids do, so i guess it's a moot point.

i'm sorry, i just can't buy this rubbish.
what it seems to me is that it's a pat on the back to republicans, saying that they're standing for all that is good and traditional, like american motherhood and so on, while democrats are bad, because they don't like traditional things.

quote: since men are physiologically stronger and more suitably built for hand-to-hand combat than women on the average, this male protection could be an artifact of patriarchal society, when higher physical strength meant greater chance of survival.

true, but evidence now also points to the fact that it seems as if many women also joined in on the hunt; the strength obviously is something that can be developed, and also appears not to be absolutely required.
it does seem to me to be societally constructed, not a primal urge. guys are raised, more often than not, to be tough, strong, the be the silent provider who bears the weight of his family on his broad shoulders. women are raised to be delicate, to seek someone who can provide for her, to be coy and soft.
i don't know how much of it links up with a "primal" behavior set, but all of that above is nurture, not nature.

	25-09-2003 18:17									#32
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Find 100 women and 100 men and teach them to lift weights. Which group do you think will lift more at the end of training? Nature dictates regrdless of who is playing with dolls and who is playing with trucks.

	25-09-2003 18:24									#33
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quote: Well that statement (the last part) is certainly demonstrated here. I guess it is necessary to deny reality in order to be an intellectual now days. It is easier to call this guy a "sexist" than to actually travel the world and find that what he says is in most case exactly correct. So much for intellectual honesty when the golden calves of liberalism are under threat. Has it ever occured to anyone that western society with about 40 years of harping on femenism is not a representative sample that the rest of the world follows? Trying to make women into men is great for votes if you are a Democrat.

it also seems to be necessary to deny reality to be so politically monotheistic these days. liberals are evil, no? they do nothing but make **** up, they're dishonest, they want to do nothing but destroy our traditional way of life, they are terrorists or in bed with them.
or, swich that around: conservatives are evil, no? they care nothing about other people, they do nothing but twist words and lie to acheive their own ends, and they want to do nothing but impose our way of life on everybody else, whether they want it or not. they must be the root cause of terrorism.

so what i say to that statement is this: bull****. in most of the world, women have sharply curtailed rights, are often victimized and have few choices: either to breed or to be irrelevant.
why is it, then, in societies where ostensibly women and men have equal rights, i.e., westernized civilizations, there's a very different picture than what this guy describes? why is it that here in the us, it seems as if women aren't looking for a man to protect them, but rather a man that is their peer and equal?

believing whatever crap one side spews to embolden their case is great if you don't want to think.

	25-09-2003 18:25									#34
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quote: Find 100 women and 100 men and teach them to lift weights. Which group do you think will lift more at the end of training? Nature dictates regrdless of who is playing with dolls and who is playing with trucks.

note that i wasn't arguing that women were going to be stronger than men. what i did say was that in many cases, survival wasn't based solely on strength.
find 100 women and 100 men, and teach them how to sew or cook. which group do you think will be more skilled at the end of training? nurture dictates just as strongly, regardless of what nature says.

	25-09-2003 18:50									#35
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Sorry, I missed your point. Yes, it is true that nurture and nature play roles but there are some things that are just inherent. There is no reason to think that only the physical characteristics are different in regard to strength. Women and men have many differences that are not so obvious. I do not agree with those who try to deny those differences. I think that is dishonest, though politically correct in some quarters.