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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
Well not everyone had guns, but honest citizens gun ownership was much, much higher percentage-wise than it is now.
Look at the 19th century. Crime was almost non-existant. |
You should watch "Gangs of New York". Other than the fact that very few New England protestants were actually psychotic sado-masochistic cannibals, that the probability of a woman surviving a late term abortion via C-section in the nineteenth century were practically nil, and that the US Navy during the Civil War did not use the type of explosive shells that came into use around the time of the Spanish American War, its depiction of the nineteenth century American city as a crime sodden hell hole was fairly accurate. quote:
Sure you had the occasional OK corral. But contrary to what western movies would have you believe, shootouts were very rare. Why? Because everyone was packing, and you were libel to get yourself killed drawing your weapon on someone else. School shootings? They would not be a problem of the students were packing heat. |
Well the fact that school marms in the ninetenth century had the right to cane miscreants almost to the point of death probably had something to do with the good behavior of students in those days. There actually was a history of school shootings in the nineteenth century. At the University of Virginia a student became so upset over being expelled from school for cheating, even though he was caught with written material in the test room, that he assasinated the professor who expelled him. The solution that U.Va. came up with however was very interesting. They did not arm their professors, but instead instituted the first honor system, effectively taking discipline out of the professors hands and putting into someone elses! (Thereby taking the faculty out of the line of fire!) quote:
Why not commit crimes now? I look around my city, and armed robbery is so easy to do. No one ever gets caught. I can't figure out why everyone doesn't do it. The police don't even investigate armed robbery anymore. They are too busy with more serious violent crimes. But they hardly solve those either.
Why trust your life in the hands of inept police?
I suggest buying a gun. |
I'm not sure about the nineteenth century, but during my life gun ownership has bugeoned without noticably reducing the crime rate. In 1960 there were about 30 million privately owned weapons distributed amongst a population of just under 200 million. Today there are over 150 million weapons owned by 290 million people. It's my guess that even fewer people owned guns in the nineteenth century, since they were proportionaly more expensive. Today an average man, who brings in about $30,000/year can purchase a handgun for $100 - $200. In the nineteenth century a Colt revolver would have sold for about $20 - $40, but the average man earned less than $200/year!
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
"Today an average man, who brings in about $30,000/year can purchase a handgun for $100 - $200."
What can of crap you buying, sawbones ? |
Well JEEZZZZZ. What kind of crap does it take anyway. When we went to a music store to buy my daughter's clarinet I saw a "Taurus" revolver offered for under $200. It wasn't fancy, but frankly if I was to buy a handgun for self-defense I doubt that buying anything fancier would make a difference.
The big point is that if you need a gun today you can get one for a fraction of 1% of an average man's annual income, where as in the nineteenth century you'd pay about one-quarter of his annual income. Buying a handgun then would almost have the same impact on personal finances as buying a car today.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by Illyrien
Concealed hanguns reduce some types of crime, notably murder, violence and rape. Theft and bruglary (in homes with nobody home) on the other hand rise a little.
Concealed handguns makes it more risky for a criminal to try anything.
If anything should want to study to topic more in detail, I would recommend "More Guns, Less Crime" by John R. Lott, jr. |
I read some of the research this man based his writings on. In the study they analyzed the murder rate during the same year in states before and after concealed weapon laws went into effect in about one dozen states. As you know there is no set date on which a state's laws go into effect. Legislatures usually try to set a date that gives adequate time to prepare for it-such as setting up the mechanics to deal with the increase in applications for licenses. In order to deal with the partial year data they used "dumb-weighting". In the study I read I couldn't find details about their statistical technique, but usually what "dumb-weighting" would mean is that they took the fraction of the total year that the particular data set dealt with, then multiplied the data by the inverse in order to make the data approximate an entire year. They did this with data for the part of the year before passsage of the concealed weapon law and for the part of the year afterwards. One of the key problems with this technique is that it assumes that murders are evenly distributed throughout the year, which is not true. In most of the US there is a summer increase due to the "hot time in the city" effect. Many northern states also have a winter increase due to the "cabin fever" effect.
Since the publication of Mr. Lott's work many more states have eased the requirements to obtain a concealed weapons, yet since that time the murder rate has once again risen from a twenty year low of about 15,000/year to 19,000/year or about the same as it was when the movement to make it easier to get a concealed weapon permit began. Now that's progress!
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29-09-2003 00:53
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