01-10-2003 22:13									#31
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Yup, the transportation of oil is always a problem. Even pipelines spring a leak...

	01-10-2003 22:40									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Lies, smears, and demagogery have put the GOP in power (especially in Congress; the political godfather of these tactics was Newt Gingrich

Care to comment on the Clarence Thomas hearings, Clinton's War Room, or Rahm Emmanuel's (in)famous comment that "It doesnt matter if the statement is true, so long as people think it is true?" The willingness to throw buckets of shit in the general direction of one's opponent is not now and never has been limited to the Republican Party.

	01-10-2003 23:09									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith Care to comment on the Clarence Thomas hearings, Clinton's War Room, or Rahm Emmanuel's (in)famous comment that "It doesnt matter if the statement is true, so long as people think it is true?" The willingness to throw buckets of shit in the general direction of one's opponent is not now and never has been limited to the Republican Party.

Of course both parties do it. But the new level of win-at-all-costs vitriol combined with sleaze and an insane disregard of the truth -- well, the Gingrich/Liddy/Rush-inspired GOP has raised that to new levels, and we all live in the tawdry aftermath. I mean really: child molestation? As Joseph Welch once said, "have you no decency"?

That said:

1) The Clarence Thomas hearings raised perfectly fair questions about Thomas' behavior, in the same way that John Towers' hearings did. Thomas never refuted the charges of sexual harassment, instead invoking the image of lynching to describe what was happening to him -- a shameless, manipulative ploy that worked (Thomas -- who has proved to be the most uninspired SCOTUS appointee in decades -- never would have been confirmed if he'd been white; I guess this is the GOP version of affirmative action). I remind you that -- for those who think the Thomas hearings came down to he said/she said -- David Brock, the chief conservative demonizer of Anita Hill, has recently recanted his own work as an untruthful, misguided, deeply immoral smear job.

2) Clinton's War Room was a fantastically efficient political operation (I'm no Clinton fan, but I have to give credit where credit is due). I'm unaware of them crossing any serious lines -- unlike, say, the Nixon campaigns, or the Reagan campaign (if you believe the briefing book scandal). I'm not sure what your point is here, but I'm not disregarding it; I just need some explication.

3) Emmanuel's only giving voice to a sentiment that we've heard from political advisors from Machiavelli forward. Given a bit of time in a library, I'm sure I could come up with something far more damning from Lee Atwater -- but even if I'm wrong about that, the point is that this is the kind of thing political advisors say. In and of itself, it makes me roll my eyes, but no more than that.

As for everything else in this thread: well, its nearly bedtime here in Ankara, so I think I'll provide my cover-all response:

"What Che said."

That ought to do it.

	01-10-2003 23:13									#34
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I'll provide my cover-all response:

"What Che said."

....now I know how the Russian Revolution managed to get off the ground....

	01-10-2003 23:19									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker I'll provide my cover-all response: "What Che said." ....now I know how the Russian Revolution managed to get off the ground....

Nah; they would have gunned down my Menshevik ass, pronto. But we agree here, united in our opposition to the czar.

	01-10-2003 23:23									#36
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Note to self, do not thread jack own thread.

	02-10-2003 01:46									#37
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It's not just Ann Coulter, who never met anyone she couldn't hate. It's Rush, Dr. Laura, Judge Judy, Emperor George, Jerry Falwell who said the US deserved 9/11, and almost gone but not forgotten Michael Savage. His show is composed of calling women sl*** and wh*****, and liberals "Red Doper Diaper Babies". Two years after Clinon left office, he was saying how awful Clinton was for masterbating in The White House. Compared to The Gulf of Tonkin, internment of the Japanese, condoning of slavery etc. that other Presidents have done, masterbating is trivial, unless you've got HUGE sexual hangups.

To all
http://www.digitalmediatree.com/onelap/comment/17427/

To all the fundies: "Judge that ye shall not be judged"

	02-10-2003 02:29									#38
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quote: Originally posted by realpolitic It's not just Ann Coulter, who never met anyone she couldn't hate. It's Rush, Dr. Laura, Judge Judy, Emperor George, Jerry Falwell who said the US deserved 9/11, and almost gone but not forgotten Michael Savage.

I think you forgot to mention the Maytag Man and the little dog from Fraiser.

	02-10-2003 22:12									#39
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"I'm all for oil exploration. It's much better to produce domesticly then to import from the middle east. Not to mention it puts our economy less at the mercy of OPEC.

Believe it or not modern oil production can be done with a minimal enviromental impact."

From what I've heard, opening ANWAR would increase our domestic use of oil to 3.3%, up from 3%, of total usage.

Doesn't seem worthwhile, IMHO.

	02-10-2003 22:45									#40
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quote: I think you forgot to mention the Maytag Man and the little dog from Fraiser

Sums that post up nicely.

	02-10-2003 23:09									#41
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Good column. It only reinforces what I've believed for some time now — in the United States of America, the statesmen and stateswomen were long ago forced to the sidelines. Now we mostly have political partisans controlling the playing field, and what comes first for them sure as hell isn't the nation. It's the political party that comes first — the nation is, at best, a distant second.

But I'm going to keep participating in local, state and national elections. It's my duty to do so as a citizen, no matter the political climate.

Gatekeeper

	02-10-2003 23:14									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Good column. It only reinforces what I've believed for some time now — in the United States of America, the statesmen and stateswomen were long ago forced to the sidelines. Now we mostly have political partisans controlling the playing field, and what comes first for them sure as hell isn't the nation. It's the political party that comes first — the nation is, at best, a distant second.

Not a troll, just an honest question: when, in the short, happy history of our land, has this ever NOT been true?

	03-10-2003 00:41									#43
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I don't know if there's a clear-cut "start" point for the degradation in American politics. I have only impressions, and my impression is that it's been in a decline since the Vietnam War, and the acceleration has increased, particularly so after Bush Sr. was defeated in 1992. Others, of course, will agree or disagree. It's a matter of impressions, after all.

Gatekeeper

	03-10-2003 01:29									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper It's a matter of impressions, after all.

American politics has always been dirty, (Ma, Ma, where's my pa? Off to the White House, ha, ha, ha). Towards the end of the '80s, though, it started to get real nasty, starting with Alan Bloom. With Bloom, those who disagree with the right were no longer people with opposing views, but enemies of Western civilization altogether. It wasn't a short jump from there to Coulter calling every left of Atilla the Hun a traitor.

At a certain point, you had to expect that the targets of these attacks were gonna take the gloves off and fight dirty also. I'm only surprised it took so long.

	03-10-2003 01:33									#45
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara In Prince William Sound, for example, only double hulled ships were suposed to be used (the Exxon Valdez was single huilled). They were supposed to have adequate facilities .

No, at the time of the Prince William's sound spill only single Hulled ships were required. There was a law which was going to make double hulled ships manditory but it was to be phased in over the better part of a decade. As a result of the spill Congress moved the requirement forward.

	03-10-2003 01:39									#46
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Are you sure? I've read otherwise.