10-10-2003 14:24									#31
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Who asked the PP to evaluate Domination games????
Ah well, having to chose between death and destruction and genocide...
All of you destroyed Japan and America. Some of you got better contacts with other civs than others. One even got a GL. Tech-wise, you are a more or less on the same level (but advantage to MZ).
Who will be the selected one?
Master Zen (Theseus second).
Why? Not for the Casbah or his pics, but he was the only one who explained his strategy for the next war and how to achieve it (and had the means ready).
As the game progresses, it becomes harder for me to judge the individual achievements (is one better because he has 5 more Ansars than the others?) without a clear explanation of what he wanted to achieve, whet he did achieve and what's the plans for the future.

	10-10-2003 19:30									#32
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Hey, this past week I haven't been able to view or download any attachments, and I think I'm not the only one.

Can we arrange to have all the saves uploaded (that seems to work for me) so we can vote on the actual save rather than on the best DAR?

Can everyone upload their own save and provide a link to it, please?

	10-10-2003 21:35									#33
	Increase Your PM Length

Mine was already uploaded, it's at the end of my first post.

	10-10-2003 22:41									#34
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I seem to be able to download all the files so here is

Taian's save

MZ's is already uploaded and it appears Theseus did not include a savegame. Since he will be gone for the next week I'm afraid that his savegame will not be able to be the choice.

	10-10-2003 22:55									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Thanks Rothaerill!

	10-10-2003 23:46									#36
	Put an end to popups!

Whoops, I thought we have Opps this round. Thanks for the upload Rothaerill. It is the only way I can get them DLed.

	10-10-2003 23:49									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have Taian and Master Zens's, are there any others. I seem to recall Theseus had posted.

	11-10-2003 00:05									#38
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Theseus posted although he forgot his save. Unfortunately the attachments don't work. I wonder if he's around...

	11-10-2003 01:28									#39
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Well, the two saves are actually not that different (economies are almost identical), but I vote for Master Zen because he is closer to attacking the next target. He has more military right now, plus he is a whole tech closer to Chivalry for an Ansar attack.

A couple of comments on MZ's save:

1) I realize that you are warmongering maniacs in this team, but did you really have to raze all those cities? You will need that land to reach domination faster anyway.

2) If you plan to research Monotheism at a 40-turn pace, use an entertainer instead of the luxury slider. It will save you several gpt. However, in your place I would immediately trade Feudalism to Babylon for Monotheism (renegotiate peace to make them accept) and research Chivalry at a 40-turn pace instead.

3) All those galleys and the GL, but still no contact with England? You would have been a lot richer if you had discovered them.

	11-10-2003 02:23									#40
	Got spare money?

Thank you for the comments, I will try to respond to them as best as I can:

quote: Originally posted by alexman 1) I realize that you are warmongering maniacs in this team, but did you really have to raze all those cities? You will need that land to reach domination faster anyway.

I actually did not raze any cities except one. Those that were razed were either auto-razed or razed in a previous save. There was only 1 city I did raze, Tokyo, in the northwest corner of the land. The reason is that during the age change I got a massive barb uprising over there and the horses were heading towards that city. I had no way to defend it and rather than lose money I was hoarding, I razed it so the barbs went towards Edo (? - the old japanese capital) where I had plenty of horses ready. I defeated the barbs that way.

quote: 2) If you plan to research Monotheism at a 40-turn pace, use an entertainer instead of the luxury slider. It will save you several gpt. However, in your place I would immediately trade Feudalism to Babylon for Monotheism (renegotiate peace to make them accept) and research Chivalry at a 40-turn pace instead.

I did not realize Babylon had mono. My mistake. I guess it would be best to trade it immediately and start doing Chivalry

quote: 3) All those galleys and the GL, but still no contact with England? You would have been a lot richer if you had discovered them.

By the looks of the map I can guess pretty much where they are. A galley from the Carthage invasion will go that way if it's possible and hopefully the money will be used for Ansars.

I hope this all made sense

	11-10-2003 02:39									#41
	Remove this text

I may have missed something here, so if I have let me know and I will reevaluate.

What I like about Taian block is that he has all the land that is now Arabs covered with cities and units to prevent any uprisings. Ok one small place that is in the dark, but the horse in that town can move over to cover it.
He has 8 horses, 3 spears and 1 archer right next to Carth, ready to go. Over 400 in gold and 33 cities. He has 94 units, the most of anyone.

Master Zen has Feudalism and is on to Mono. He has large chunks of open land, which could be an invitation to barbs and civs. This is not fatal, but does not exist in Taians game.

The part I may have missed is Alexmans mentioning of more troops ready to rock? I see two army groups mention my Master Zen, but they look like empty galleys to me. Even if they are not empty, they will need some time to be deployed.

I did not check on the trade and tech issues, but it is likely that some may be available.

I read Thesus block, but it is hard to tell with out the save. I can only see that all have finished off the the civs and have control of all that area. He had something like 68 units.

So given what I see (which could be short sighted), I would prefer Taians.

	11-10-2003 09:24									#42
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 What I like about Taian block is that he has all the land that is now Arabs covered with cities and units to prevent any uprisings.

Actually, I like that too. On the other hand, if you look at the two saves, Taian's extra cities are not making his empire have a stronger economy.

quote: The part I may have missed is Alexmans mentioning of more troops ready to rock?

MZ already has 12 Medieval Infanry ready to go, while Taian does not even know Feudalism. Taian's horsemen would have a hard time against Numidian Mercs, but MZ's attack-4 units have a good chance to make some immediate progress. Taian may have a lot of units, but many of them are Spearmen.

They are both good games, however.

	11-10-2003 09:31									#43
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I already had a massive barb uprising, in the old japanese territories. It was defeated with my leftover horses from teh japanese campaign.

	11-10-2003 09:39									#44
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You all have done an excellent job!

	11-10-2003 10:26									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I already had a massive barb uprising, in the old japanese territories. It was defeated with my leftover horses from teh japanese campaign.

Yes I know, I should not have used the term uprising. I did not mean the full 12 man raid.

	11-10-2003 10:36									#46
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quote: Originally posted by alexman MZ already has 12 Medieval Infanry ready to go, while Taian does not even know Feudalism. Taian's horsemen would have a hard time against Numidian Mercs, but MZ's attack-4 units have a good chance to make some immediate progress. Taian may have a lot of units, but many of them are Spearmen. They are both good games, however.

Yes, they are. Ae you talking about 12 MI spread in various cities?
I do not find any in a standing army (I mean stacked ready to go).
As to feudalism, there is no real big need for it as you are not going to be attacked by anyone. I did not check on how many swords would be available for upgrades.
You may be correct about the Nums, but 8 horses stand a good change to bust some heads.
I don't think it matters about the cities not being producive right now as they only care about cracking Carth.
One plus is the 8 galleys ready to use for any invasions.
The spears I would think are meant to cober any retreating horses and to hold any captured city.
So all in all they are both in good shape. I am just expressing my lame style. I have a hang up about controlling my area. I guess I am just a builder at heart.

	12-10-2003 03:51									#47
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quote: Originally posted by alexman Actually, I like that too. On the other hand, if you look at the two saves, Taian's extra cities are not making his empire have a stronger economy.

I know those cities aren't helping the economy...mostly because there's no FP yet. I hadn't really intended to have them be overly productive yet...just cover the land since I'm not really that big on colonies. As well, I'm going to need the land area covered to hit the domination victory. I could have left it and built them later, but it was easier just to keep them around after capturing them.

quote: Originally posted by alexman MZ already has 12 Medieval Infanry ready to go, while Taian does not even know Feudalism. Taian's horsemen would have a hard time against Numidian Mercs, but MZ's attack-4 units have a good chance to make some immediate progress. Taian may have a lot of units, but many of them are Spearmen.

I don't really have any intention of wasting the horse against the Numidians. I just didn't have any use for them up north, so I sent them down near Carthage. I have every intention of waiting for Ansars and then mass upgrading. I know it will mean a slower conquest of Carthage, but I'm not that concerned...things are already well in hand. Note that I could buy Feudalism from Mordor and then I would still have enough gold to upgrade my 6 swordsmen (120 gold) and would be 1 gold short of upgrading another 6 warriors straight to the same. So...the capability exists for me to have 12 MI as well to join my 20 horsemen. The reason I don't trade for Feudalism is because it would cost me Contact with Carthage and my World Map. Really, we could make the trade right now and go to town on Carthage; the production capacity exists. Anyway, that's why I haven't got to Feudalism yet (one of the reasons anyway ).

I've also already put down the Barbs on my continent. They wandered in a number of turns ago while I was still beating on the Americans for the last time.

	12-10-2003 10:40									#48
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The voting for the fourth turn block is finished and Master Zen is the choice. Congratulations Master Zen. The fifth turn block will be posted in a new DAR thread. Everyone will have 10 days to complete the fifth turn block. That means the DARs will need to be posted by 23:59 EST Tuesday the 21st. This is being done for three reasons…one to get back onto the normal schedule, two to hopefully draw back the people who have stopped playing by giving them more time to play, and three I will be gone from the 16th through the 20th.

	16-10-2003 04:59									#49
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After the fact, but I totally concur with the selection of MZ's save. Well done!!

(but who had an ARMY??!! )

	16-10-2003 05:35									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus After the fact, but I totally concur with the selection of MZ's save. Well done!! (but who had an ARMY??!! )

Sorry Theseus. Even if yours might have been picked you forgot to attach the save. Since you were gone and couldn't upload anything I had to disqualify yours.

	16-10-2003 06:46									#51
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That is what happen, I look at your post, but had to no save, so it could not be used anyway.