Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Technocracy: Yes/No?
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
answer the title (Time out:0 days after 04-10-2003, 13:14)
Yes
No
Bananas
View Results [Edit Poll (moderators only)]
Author
Thread   
Pages (2): [ 1   2   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
King
Whale-raping abomination
Aug 2000
time: 05:31
  Old Post 05-10-2003 20:40
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#31 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

I think you'll find that "scheming" and "manipulation" is just the cynic's term for "people skills".

Just imagine if tech people ran the world. We'd see a new Crusade, with the role of Peter the Hermit played by Linus Torvalds.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
  Old Post 05-10-2003 20:50 Visit DanS's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#32 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:31
  Old Post 05-10-2003 21:02
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#33 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

more like .

Once again, I am saying that those WON'T BE computer geeks.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
King
Whale-raping abomination
Aug 2000
time: 05:31
  Old Post 05-10-2003 21:03
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#34 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

Planning on spicing up the mix with engineering geeks too?

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:31
  Old Post 05-10-2003 21:05 Visit MikeH's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#35 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

Can't we have some girls in politics?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:31
  Old Post 05-10-2003 21:13
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#36 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Planning on spicing up the mix with engineering geeks too?




As you saw yourself, Ind. Engineers are even to hip to be considered engineers by the "real" engineers. Seriously, They are not only skilled in the job politicans should be doing, i.e. managing things, and organizing things for maximum efficiency, but are also skilled a lot in leading people.



Oh, and no, I am not an Ind. engineer.

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:31
  Old Post 05-10-2003 22:11 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#37 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote:
Originally posted by MikeH
Can't we have some girls in politics?


Rule by math majors then? That's what the girls are going into at my university.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:31
  Old Post 06-10-2003 00:03 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#38 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

People skills are becoming proportionally less important now, however, as more services become automated. It's simply cheaper and more effective to replace a bumbling bureaucrat with a computer terminal. Good management now is as much about managing machines as it is managing people.

I would say China's government is doing a darn good job given what it has available to work with. However, their government is not democratic. Perhaps it is because their leadership knows that democratic government would cause a shift to favor lawyers and politicians?

Interestingly, the the traditional method of Chinese government, which the current system still has many elements of, substituted election democracy for examination democracy. People who did better on civil service exams were the ones who became government leaders. You could say that this system isn't completely fair, but neither is the election system. In both situations wealth gives one advantages, but in the examination system wealth can only get one so far.

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:31
  Old Post 06-10-2003 00:25 Visit MikeH's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#39 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by St Leo


Rule by math majors then? That's what the girls are going into at my university.



Maths? No way, those losers.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-10-2003 00:56 Visit DanS's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#40 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

quote:
People skills are becoming proportionally less important now, however, as more services become automated.


SARS. 'nuff said.

yavoon is offline yavoon
Warlord

Oct 2001
time: 05:31
  Old Post 06-10-2003 01:11
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#41 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

gov't should be run by ppl who don't want to run it. distrust all who seek power fervently

Arnelos is offline Arnelos
Emperor
of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-10-2003 05:01
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#42 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

quote:
Originally posted by Smiley
People skills are becoming proportionally less important now, however, as more services become automated. It's simply cheaper and more effective to replace a bumbling bureaucrat with a computer terminal. Good management now is as much about managing machines as it is managing people.


Anyone who thinks that "people skills" are going to become less important should go back and study the entire length of human history. Simply put, some people get ahead and others do not. Much of that is determined by the set of talents and skills included in the catchall term "people skills". Much of what this term refers to is the ability to play and win at politics: job politics, social politics, civic politics, any form of politics. Humans are political animals and oldshcool human politics will remain fundamentally important to the governance of humanity for as long as there are still humans, any humans, in charge.

The thing that typically doesn't occur to people when they consider "replacing politicians" as the leadership is that this is a contradiction in terms. By definition, the people holding political leadership become politicans. The fact that they have no experience just makes them piss-poor politicians.

quote:

I would say China's government is doing a darn good job given what it has available to work with. However, their government is not democratic. Perhaps it is because their leadership knows that democratic government would cause a shift to favor lawyers and politicians?


It is worth noting that China is run, primarily by bureacratic politicians who have spent their entire lives in the cutthroat business of internal Communist Party politics. The entire ruling class of China are politicians. The ones really in charge are 70-90 year-old politicans so thoroughly bread by spending their entire lives in internal party politics that they've gotten very good at playing the game.

Don't fool yourself, lack of democracy does not mean lack of politics. Politics was around long before democracy was invented and it would survive long after democracy died.

quote:

Interestingly, the the traditional method of Chinese government, which the current system still has many elements of, substituted election democracy for examination democracy. People who did better on civil service exams were the ones who became government leaders. You could say that this system isn't completely fair, but neither is the election system. In both situations wealth gives one advantages, but in the examination system wealth can only get one so far.


The current Chinese system is based increasingly upon social connections and family ties, much as the original one was. The power players in the Communist Party largely play a game of clan politics vying for power, money, and prestige with each other as much as they have ideological and policy battles inside the party.

Arnelos is offline Arnelos
Emperor
of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-10-2003 05:04
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#43 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote:
Originally posted by yavoon
gov't should be run by ppl who don't want to run it. distrust all who seek power fervently


Aside from the fact that, by definition, this leaves no-one to rule who isn't being dishonest if they agree to seek and take on the job...

It would leave society doomed to be governed by what it determined to be its least competent members. Talk about a Dystopia...

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:31
  Old Post 06-10-2003 15:51 Visit MikeH's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#44 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Not wanting to do something doesn't imply incompetence.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 06-10-2003 15:56 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#45 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

now that i think about it, government will never change, no matter what stipulations we put on it.

so all i will settle for is this: those who do not understand technology should be prohibited from making decisions that affect it.

meaning, we shouldn't have idiot politicians voting for the dcma thinking it's a good thing.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:31
  Old Post 06-10-2003 17:19 Visit MrFun's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#46 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by St Leo


Rule by math majors then?


Mathematicians are a dangerous group of people, in my eyes.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:31
  Old Post 06-10-2003 20:45 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#47 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
now that i think about it, government will never change, no matter what stipulations we put on it.

so all i will settle for is this: those who do not understand technology should be prohibited from making decisions that affect it.


Applying this, the more complex technology gets, the more effort people will need to go through to understand it. Since humans have limited mental capacity, this means over time politicians would be a greater % engineer and a lesser % lawyer.

I don't buy the whole "past precedent" idea, automation of traditionally human services is unprecedented, and when full artificial intelligence comes along it'll be a whole new situation.

 
Pages (2): [ 1   2   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:31.
Apolyton Time is 00:31.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0479 seconds (90.69% PHP - 9.31% MySQL) with 34 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net