16-10-2003 15:13									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker The bank's offer required recipients to go thru background checks and then they would receive the gun thru the mail.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

	16-10-2003 15:24									#32
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I ****ing hate Michael Moore. That is all.

	16-10-2003 15:59									#33
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since I don´t know most of the people on that list and I didn´t want to vote for Moore, I had to vote for Ming. I think this was a wise and justified choice.

	16-10-2003 19:38									#34
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quote: I ****ing hate Michael Moore. That is all.

I kinda like him and think the world needs people like him.

	16-10-2003 19:41									#35
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Believe it or not Bill O'Reilly has been bugging me lately.

	16-10-2003 19:49									#36
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Michael Moore is what you get when a brain surgeon transplants a 3 year old's brain into a middle aged white man's body.

I have a lot more Michael Moore jokes, but that one pretty much gets to the point. His material, ALL of it - documentaries and writings are about 5% fact and 95% liberal propoganda. Although I think calling Michael Moore a liberal is something of a low blow to liberals......

Not even liberals are that incompetently stupid. (One word is not enough to describe this anti-American moron, why doesn't he put his money where his mouth is and move to Cuba?)

	16-10-2003 21:42									#37
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Copied And Pasted from Buck's link, in case anyone's too lazy/closed-minded to clicky:

"The Truth: In the spring of 2001, I saw a real ad in a real newspaper in Michigan announcing a real promotion that this real bank had where they would give you a gun (as your up-front interest) for opening up a Certificate of Deposit account. They promoted this in publications all over the country – "More Bang for Your Buck!"

There was news coverage of this bank giving away guns, long before I even shot the scene there. The Chicago Sun Times wrote about how the bank would "hand you a gun" with the purchase of a CD. Those are the precise words used by a bank employee in the film.

When you see me going in to the bank and walking out with my new gun in "Bowling for Columbine" – that is exactly as it happened. Nothing was done out of the ordinary other than to phone ahead and ask permission to let me bring a camera in to film me opening up my account. I walked into that bank in northern Michigan for the first time ever on that day in June 2001, and, with cameras rolling, gave the bank teller $1,000 – and opened up a 20-year CD account. After you see me filling out the required federal forms ("How do you spell Caucasian?") – which I am filling out here for the first time – the bank manager faxed it to the bank's main office for them to do the background check. The bank is a licensed federal arms dealer and thus can have guns on the premises and do the instant background checks (the ATF's Federal Firearms database—which includes all federally approved gun dealers—lists North Country Bank with Federal Firearms License #4-38-153-01-5C-39922).

Within 10 minutes, the "OK" came through from the firearms background check agency and, 5 minutes later, just as you see it in the film, they handed me a Weatherby Mark V Magnum rifle (If you'd like to see the outtakes, click here). "
-Michael Moore

Seems pretty straightforward to me that nothing was staged.

	16-10-2003 22:48									#38
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The only thing I could find about the bank story was this article by Andrew Sullivan of the Sunday Times. Dan Lyons of Forbes apparently found that North Country Bank & Trust only gave you a gift certificate for a nearby gun store. Read the entire article btw, it points out several other falsehoods in the movie and his book, as does this article by Spinsanity.

	16-10-2003 22:57									#39
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I've got to go with Ming because of his constant overuse of the word 'chill' - how early 90s!

Good call on Hannity though, Berzerk - that guy is flat-out annoying. O'Reilly is just a diva. Al Franken's big sin is that he just isn't funny. When I see Franken, I just feel embarrased for him.

	17-10-2003 00:31									#40
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i do have to admit hannity is kinda annoying. he's such a bush/republican apologist, up to the point where he himself distorts the truth to defend them.

case in point, he mentioned that the war in iraq was not preemptive, but rather a "resumption of hostilities"--if that really is the case, then, why would the administration go through all of its contortions to justify preemption, particularly at west point?

he drools like a little schoolgirl over bush and coulter and other conservatives, while interrupting liberals on his balanced show.

	17-10-2003 04:05									#41
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quote: Seems pretty straightforward to me that nothing was staged.

What? Just because he says so?

	17-10-2003 04:33									#42
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Buck - I'd stand corrected if I could believe Moore, but I saw a little old lady who worked at that bank and she said his description was not how it works. She said people don't walk out the door with guns. So, apparently what Moore did WAS out of the ordinary...

	17-10-2003 04:44									#43
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"I've got to go with Ming because of his constant overuse of the word 'chill' - how early 90s! "

	17-10-2003 04:45									#44
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The 2 Michaels (Moore and Savage) are the worst. While Moore is the lying propagandist, Savage represents the ignorant self-grandizing a-hole. Whenever the clock hits 4PM, I switch my radio from 910 to 810.

Matt Drudge ranks third on my list for his incessant boasting that only he represents the total absolute truth,

	17-10-2003 05:23									#45
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet quote: Seems pretty straightforward to me that nothing was staged. What? Just because he says so?

Yeah, pretty much. It's his word against the disprovers'. I guess I'll just have to go down to that bank and find out for m'self.

	17-10-2003 05:25									#46
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I should note that I'm not even a Moore fan, really. I mean, he doesn't piss me off as much as he seems to for other people, but I don't care that much for him.

Franken, though... That guy's aces.

	17-10-2003 06:25									#47
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Satire is streching the truth to make a point. It the thing he lied about wasn't the purpose of that, What Moore was trying to say was that guns are too easy to get, and the reason for that is the bird-brained hillbily lobbyists of the NRA. Even my US Government textbook and the US Supreme Court says that the 2nd Amendmnet doesn't give everybody the right to bear arms, only those in the national gaurd.

	17-10-2003 07:16									#48
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I am surprised Jesse jackson is so high. The list is skewed: many of the people there are not pundits. Moore is not a pundit, even if you decide to label him a propagandist: if you do, then obviosuly you DONT believe he is a pundit, now do you? Jesse isn;t one either.And Al Franker is slowly becoming one.

As for the pundits left, Coulter gets my vote hand down, though Hannity should be on there and then he would get my vote.

Oh: what is a pundit? Someone who makes themselves famous by providing political opinions on TV in the from of editorials, or in arguements. Which is why I say Moore and Jackson aren't. Al Franken is very slowwly becoming one.

	17-10-2003 08:06									#49
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Gepap, pundits can't be propagandists?

Odin -

quote: Even my US Government textbook and the US Supreme Court says that the 2nd Amendmnet doesn't give everybody the right to bear arms, only those in the national gaurd.

Funny, there was no national guard when the 2nd Amendment was written. Does your US government text book explain that?
The word "militia" meant state militias as defined by the states at that time, and the states had 2 militias - one with more formal training and "on-call" and another comprised of the citizenry, the "irregular" militia, who would be called into action when needed to back up the smaller "regular" militia. These "irregular" militias fought in the Revolution, the War of 1812, The Indian Wars, the Mexican War, and the US Civil War. According to you (or these people you seem willing to rely on), the only right mentioned in the 2nd Amendment - the right of THE PEOPLE (not the right of the militia) to keep and bear arms is negated by the Framer's explanation and advice that the states were the ultimate arbiters of their liberty via militias. Does that make sense? Why did the Framers mention a right of the people to keep and bear arms if they meant only to guarantee state militias this "right"? Btw, states don't have rights, they have powers (read the 10th Amendment).

If you were serious, you'd read what the Framers wrote about the right to keep and bear arms - they were, after all, unanimous on the matter.

	17-10-2003 08:12									#50
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quote: Satire is streching the truth to make a point.

The Academy didn't give him an Oscar for best "satire", they gave it for best documentary...

	17-10-2003 08:29									#51
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On the second amendment, it was directed to restricting the power of the Federal Government from banning or regulating the "right" of the poeple to keep and bear arms, rifles, pistols and the like, so that they could form state militias. The founding fathers were concerned that the Feds could kill the militia by banning private ownership of weapons and being the sole source of weapons for the state militias, which would not be forthcoming.

This is a States vs. the Feds balance-of-power issue.

The second amendment is silent on the issue of whether a state could ban weapons. This issue has never been the focus of any litigation that I know of, and has not been addressed by the Supremes. The only case where the Supremes took up the issue involved a "sawed off" shotgun. The Supremes decide that a ban on this kind of weapon was outside the Second Amendment because it was clearly not a military weapon. However, clearly suggests that a ban on military weapons, such as assault rifles, by the Federal government falls squarely in the sights of the Second Amendment.

Last edited by Ned on 17-10-2003 at 08:42

	17-10-2003 16:53									#52
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listening to the radio on the way home yesterday (my brother and mom love hannity, so i have to listen to him whether i like it or not whenever i get in the car and don't get the driver's or front seat...) i remembered another annoying habit of hannity's--and most talk show hosts, actually.

i'm f*cking sick of sycophantic kudos calls. i want to hear debate on talk shows, not some f*cking a**hole saying: "oh, hannity, i want to have your babies, you sweet sweet outspoken and moral conservative man you."

	17-10-2003 18:07									#53
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I am surprised Jesse jackson is so high. The list is skewed: many of the people there are not pundits. Moore is not a pundit, even if you decide to label him a propagandist: if you do, then obviosuly you DONT believe he is a pundit, now do you? Jesse isn;t one either.And Al Franker is slowly becoming one. As for the pundits left, Coulter gets my vote hand down, though Hannity should be on there and then he would get my vote. Oh: what is a pundit? Someone who makes themselves famous by providing political opinions on TV in the from of editorials, or in arguements. Which is why I say Moore and Jackson aren't. Al Franken is very slowwly becoming one.

I've seen Jesse Jackson and Michael Moore being pundits on numerous occasions. Because they have other gigs they are allowed to describe themselves by other titles, but they are pundits as well.

	18-10-2003 04:15									#54
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I didn't worry about whether the people I voted for were Liberals or Conservatives. I just voted for the ones I found annoying.

I don't agree with any of Al Franken's beliefs but I still think he's funny.

	18-10-2003 15:09									#55
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Well Ben Affleck just mouthed off on Bush at an awards concert in the mold of Michael Moore.

Too bad, I formerly liked Affleck. I seriously doubt I will ever see another of his movies.

	18-10-2003 16:00									#56
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quote: Originally posted by cinch Copied And Pasted from Buck's link, in case anyone's too lazy/closed-minded to clicky: ............... Seems pretty straightforward to me that nothing was staged.

How can you say that pack of non-debating methods was anything like straightforward? I like the part where he tries to defend his implication that because these boys lived near a plant that made ICBMs before these kids were born and before they or their parents lived in the area that somehow this had an impact on their murderous behavior. Yea, that's why there have been so many children committing mass murder in Amarillo Texas and Alamagordo New Mexico.

Note how he writes several paragraphs of vitriol and character assasination before slipping in his "evidence" that what he did was cool. His defense is 90% attacking the messenger. There is no doubt that the Heston "speech" was cobbled together from at least two speeches using deceptive editing to make it seem as though Heston was gloating in Denver and in Michigan while the victims blood was still wet. I also note that instead of defending himself from the more sophisticated critiques of his movie (see David Kopel's article for one of these), he only rises to defend himself from charges that I have never seen from a guy I've never heard of. The man is thouroughly dishonest, and mean to boot. Take a look at his movie Pets or Meat for another fine example of him taking in regular people under false pretenses in order to make fun of them.

	19-10-2003 01:02									#57
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Sik, I haven't seen any of Michael Moore's libelous works, but it I have heard enough to know what he is, an immoral propagandist. That the Academy could have given him an award speak volumes about Hollywood.