14-06-2004 15:48									#391
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: No, it should be sent when the Hive gets their turn. Btw, another matter. Have a look at this thread over at CGN. Would this be some advice from Kody to PEACE about how to defend against us? We know Kody is still looking at the Hive turn, from his comment in the general forum about the Hive still having Turnplayer Enigma as in-game leader, so he is more or less up to date and could offer advice. Of course I consider everything Kody does as suspicious but I find that thread rather a big coincidence, especially since he mentions the MCC.

Thanks Maniac, I can feel the love.

quote: The mentioning of the MCC looks more an advice to counterattack atlantis after we have it. PEACE can't do anything this turn anymore.

Ahh now I understand why the Cycon thought the Hive was interested in atlantis, being so suspicious certainly can lead you off on wild goose chases.

quote: There were coups in leadership back and forth for a while, with the upshot that Kody was kicked out, allowed to rejoin for a while, and now we are at the state where Kody is not in any faction, yet is still sympathetic to the Hive and may be helping them to an uncertain degree.

I was kicking myself out, repeatively and honghu kept bringing me back with her stories of her struggling to keep the Hive going. I never could say no to her.

Umm well I nudged them about making diplomatic contact when they completely forgot. I made comments about Mead, Enigma trying to say that the team needs to stick together. I sometimes leaked the answers to questions they had.

That post at civgaming was because the Hive was asking about what the value of armor on a ship was. They were planning on armoring all their boats. Which isn't really worthwhile when you consider that the opponent can bombard them. Only the weapon value is used, so armor is ignored.

quote: Kody promised to leave the ACDG for good. He is able to access all forums. He should not be giving advice to anyone. The fact he still looks at the Hive turn is a major point, and if he's helping any faction this needs addressing. However that thread is in General Help forum, and has not been posted in by PEACE members. I would consider it no to do with the DG. If he is directly helping any faction, I have a problem though.

You can see when the forums open up when and where I've been talking. I've actually had very little to do with military issues. I tried my hand at military issues on the very last 2 turns before the game ended. Okay I know that was wrong, but nobody seemed to care about the ACDG anymore so I though it was okay. Rubin politely thanked me for my input and I on a hunch I read back over what had been said very carefully and realised I'm very much a newbie in military matters. Need to spend several days figuring things out before I can give good advice on military matters.

quote: He admitted to me that his assertion that he had found a way to gain access to the other forums was a bluff, either hoping that Tass or I would have him elevated to "godhood" status (much like I did with Tass when he cracked the passwords) or would have him banned by Ming (he doesn't have the self control just to stay away from the forums)

The banning part!!! I needed out. The godhood status would have been worse than death for me, like right now I'm having trouble logging off until I read all the posts.

	14-06-2004 16:14									#392
	Suffering from ads?

quote: We have been discussing a co-op victory. We seem to be for it, the Hive is mostly for it, though some remain to be convinced, and the Drones think it is too easy. However Jamski has the backing of HongHu and Kody, and so this is not completely without foundation.

You see on the Hive side they never found out about these discussions. If you had actually allowed them to be released to the hive public the vote might have swing your way.

Unlike what people think the Hive was a republic/democracy pretending to be a democracy pretending to be a dictactorship. Eg basically you needed the majority vote, not just the people in power.

What the majority of the Hive saw was there was little discussing progress going on between Hive and Cycon. There wasn't the influx of cycon spam that was hoped for, no new roleplay opportunities etc.... Instead secret talks between Hive and Cycon that caused Tassadar to investigate for spying.

	14-06-2004 16:23									#393
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Have received reply from Kody: quote: quote: Looking back at the PMs with Impaler I jumped to the wrong conclusion and probably over-reacted. I have to admit that the pirate-cycon issue raised doubt in my mind of the integrity of the cycon. At the time it appeared Implaer was trying to be devious and probe for information rather than directly asking. Honghu is pushing most of the policy regarding the cycon. She seemed to be completely convinced that you guys are trustworthy. At the moment I am for a pact, however still hold some reservations. Most of the hive wants the cycon pacted simply because we'll have the most diplomatic alliances in the game. *roll eyes* The smarter ones don't seem interested in the diplomancy and just trust Honghu and me for what the hive should do diplomatically. Which is kindof sad because I would perfer to hear their opinions. And have replied: quote: quote: I understand that. Some CyCons are not as strong as others (well, just Impaler actually). However I am strongly Pro-Hive. I understand the problems regarding PEACE, but please understand that I am only human. When I am insulted, accused, have sarcastic and snide comments made about me by their diplomatic counsel, I realise that enough is enough. I will take more than a little pleasure in seeing what happens when we attack, and while this is most un-CyCon like, I will enjoy it greatly Please understand that that was a completely isolated issue. I think HongHu said it best about Impaler when she said that he was almost trying to have an intelligence competition with you. The reason HongHu is convinced of our trustworthyness, as Jamski was before he left, is because I have always disclosed information to her. I have been chastised for this among the CyCon, but only a little after we first me, I've told her we were going to attack PEACE and discussed the future and co-operative victory. Much of which was kept from the rest of the Hive, until we were sure that PEACE wouldn't find out our plans. This was the same with our reluctance to pact earlier. HongHu and I also have spoken a little personally, so there is some trust built there (she helped me sort things out with my girlfriend). I look at it logically. The biggest chance we have to win is in an alliance with the Hive. It works on an RP level, that a totalitarian and communist system would only be completely efficient if the citizens were telepathic. Also on game terms, one research faction and one build/militaristic faction seems to be a good match. And most importantly on a fun level. If this game drags on for another year, people will lose interest and the game will stalemate. If we finish it in about 3-6 months, we will finish the game, have enough time to enjoy it but not to get bored. Also, C is a game set on the premise of not repeating the mistakes of old earth. If we can have a co-operative victory to show that co-operation works and that competition is one of those mistakes, it goes with the communist ideal, and also is quite a nice legacy for the DG. I would rather win co-op with the Hive than on our own. It is also our best shot at victory. Therefore, logically, it is what I put my efforts into making happen. In short, while I cannot prove to you our intentions, I can only explain that our most logical position is one of honesty and trust with the Hive. I trust the Hive. I know that we are worthy of Hive trust. As such we have given you all the battle and future tech plans we have. We would be happy to discuss future tech paths, so that we can direct and trade our techs. I understand your doubts. I hope I can show you that they are unfounded, as time and our pact progresses. - Drogue PS. With regards to the Planetary Council, I have posted a poll to get an official result, but I'm pretty sure it will be unanimously in favour of a Hive vote. The last bit may seem a bit much, but I'm pretty sure that it makes no difference and that we're mostly for it, and the stronger we seem, the more they trust us. If we're going to vote yes, I can seem pretty confident of it, because it says "we're not just going to vote yes, it was so obvious that I knew it already".

Because you addressed that specifically to me I didn't realise those were official communications, I don't think I posted them. Hrmm maybe I should have posted them.

	14-06-2004 16:27									#394
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Damn Hiveans. We already told them a long time ago we were no longer willing to vote for them in exchange for only that infiltration information. Temporary deafness I guess...

We weren't interested in obtaining your vote, but we had beauractic momentum going for us.

	14-06-2004 16:38									#395
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: He has just responded with what I belive is the closest thing to an apology we will see on the issue of accusing me of lieing to him. He says he had confirmed the validity of my method. I suspect this means Kody will have egg on his face within the Hive power structure as he indicated he was the most Anti-Cycon member their and has likly raised this supposed "lie" up as an example to his fellow Hivarians on why we should not be trusted.

Not an example, I raised the question though in the drone-hive embassy on the issue of spying. I was embrassed, because I had wrongfully accused you of knowing information that I thought you must have gotten through spying. I didn't know of any game tricks that could get that information when I made that accusation.

Unlike you my position in the hive wasn't affected at all by the incident, I think just people accepted that I had made a mistake.

I was re-examining what happened in my mind wondering why I reacted the way I did, and whether it was because I was anti-cycon and didn't know it. You guys had been dropping hints to me that I was anti-cycon for a week or so and that incident raised doubts in my mind of whether it was true or not.

Reading the thread where I posted on the issue, it has me mainly talking alot about removing inactive members from the Hive. I think you might have contacted me at the time I was organising the Hive inactive member purge. Still no excuse though.

	14-06-2004 17:11									#396
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Anyway, weird how he got all those base coordinates AND their names. This, together by his questional ability to effect B-drones, strengthens my intention never to play a PBEM game with Kody in it.

Blah. I withdraw that statement from months(?) ago. I probably forgot to edit it away.
Back then I didn't know what you found about b-drones, but now I do know better, I consider it a perfectly legal tactic.

	14-06-2004 17:14									#397
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Kody Thanks Maniac, I can feel the love.

quote: Originally posted by HongHu Second, when the private forums are opened, I would like to caution people who read other forums to try to remain detached and do not get offended by old comments. Remember posts were made in the past, and people's thoughts and emotions during those circumstances when they made the posts may be very different from what they are now. It's beneficially to learn from reviewing what heppened in the past, but I would suggest we don't get offended, and please do not let new grudges form on old words.

	14-06-2004 22:09									#398
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Just wanted to say hi and I love you all.

	14-06-2004 22:18									#399
	Inflate your Upload Space

Oh have you found the Tassadar->Maniac love thread. It's quite saucy!

	14-06-2004 22:21									#400
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'm still reading this one thread ok? I have never mastered the Spamski post-skimming skill.

ps why does Tassadar have love fest everywhere he goes?

	14-06-2004 22:26									#401
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

*patents the SPAM rush tactic*

quote: ps why does Tassadar have love fest everywhere he goes?

Tassadar probably enjoys the physical contact.

quote: I'm still reading this one thread ok? I have never mastered the Spamski post-skimming skill.

Yeah I know what you mean I spent 36 hours to get through the entire cycon forum. I can't imagine what it'll be like for the cycon to read the Hive forum.

	14-06-2004 22:29									#402
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Off course not, probably most Hivers flock to their forum when the turn has arrived.

We flocked to our forum whenever we were awake to tell the truth. And then we usually slept when the turn arrived.

	14-06-2004 22:32									#403
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Kody We flocked to our forum whenever we were awake to tell the truth. And then we usually slept when the turn arrived.

I can't stress enough how much truth is buried in that statement.

	14-06-2004 22:38									#404
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by HongHu I can't stress enough how much truth is buried in that statement.

Hehehe, on multiple levels.

You know I'm almost nogalistic enough to write a history of the 2nd ACDG.

	15-06-2004 00:33									#405
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Hive has gone All stockpiling Energy and returned their bases to Mass Librarians. This is all quite odd, atfirst the theory on the tec pause was that the Drones were going to give them EvnEcon but this did not happen and they will now reserch it for themselves next turn (unless perhaps the Drones send it preaccepted this turn). The reason for their huge Credit Production is still a mystery as they dont seem to be in a position to get the PEG anymore. That inteligence department would be helpfull for figuring these things out, the Hive is a mystery in a Puzzle wrapped in Enigma_Nova's Ego!

Very strange indeed. Which turn were you looking at Function Impaler? Enigma did 2154 and I did 2155. I'm curious which is the turn that you looked at.

	15-06-2004 01:14									#406
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Drogue I believe it. They have a point, and in their situation, I'd do the same thing. We know HongHu has gone out of her way, even hurting her faction, to be honest. I suspect the Hive of plotting against us, as I would in their situation. I do not suspect HongHu of lying to us.

I have not lied. But I have to admit that that was the closest to a lie that I've ever said. We have had discussions and some indeed considered allying with CPU but the majority was against the idea and the purpose of that message was to stall time. The Hive had been planing to attack Uni for a long long time. We had not planned attacking CCs until much later but we were not going to give up our Uni invasion plan that we have prepared for so long just because of your unification.

While reading the thread I realize that both the Hive and CC were thinking the trades that I was trying to push were uneven and favor the other faction. I wish that we had viewed the deals differently at that time, that we had realized a strengthened relationship is much more worthy than a few techs or SPs. If it was a pbem with me as the Hive and Drogue as the CCs I'm almost be 100% confident that the end result is going to be different.

The first indication I've got that Hive CC relationship was not going anywhere was when I wasn't able to get any real trade done. It followed with my PMs and chats with Drogue, Mainac and Impaler. I still had hope at the time. But more incidents happened later and I had basically given up on joint victory with Drones and CCs when I resigned from the CC embassador position because I foresee lots of deceivings to be done and I couldn't stand that, and I knew I would leak information if I were still at that position.

	15-06-2004 01:44									#407
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by obstructor She must think of our badgering of Hive members. I think she cant stand little teasing from our team while Hive can put up a thread full of **** to annoy us (planetary council motion blah blah). I can stop it, but I am puzzled that Hive doesn`t approve some teasing in Trash Talking Thread while they openly claim we are aggresive warlords seeking to conquer Hive?

Nah. I was actually referring the "Peter" incident. I do not have a problem about the Trash talking thread. I wouldn't have participated would I if I have a problem with that? BTW you are right the planetary council motion and others are exactly what it looks like, an arrogant Hive's argument to support why it was going to war. (We were actually trying to mirror the US in this case. )

	15-06-2004 02:03									#408
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Dear Function Maniac, I was notified that the colony pod your captured is determined to be affected by an unknown planet virus that may be deadly and highly contagious. The Hive coastal guard had to take it out because it posed great potential threat to the Hive's security. Comrade HongHu

What I really meant: It was believed that you may use that colony pod to set up a base and send a bunch of planes the next turn and surprise attack the Hive. I did not suspected that but yes it was indeed believed by some in the Hive.

	15-06-2004 02:29									#409
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by HongHu I have not lied.

If that wasn't a lie, I don't know what is.

quote: Nah. I was actually referring the "Peter" incident.

Again, don't (only) shoot the messenger...

	15-06-2004 02:34									#410
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by HongHu What I really meant: It was believed that you may use that colony pod to set up a base and send a bunch of planes the next turn and surprise attack the Hive. I did not suspected that but yes it was indeed believed by some in the Hive.

CyCon didn't had any planes at the time. Something that could easily be checked by infiltration info from the Drones.

	15-06-2004 02:43									#411
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Kody I was kicking myself out, repeatively and honghu kept bringing me back with her stories of her struggling to keep the Hive going. I never could say no to her.

Yes, that's true. I begged Jamski before too, but he is always busy drinking and dancing on the table. I think I really owe you a lot Kody.

	15-06-2004 02:49									#412
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Maniac If that wasn't a lie, I don't know what is.

Every sentences I wrote were true, although used to disguise the real intention ...

quote: Again, don't (only) shoot the messenger...

Nah, it was quite fun actually.

To tell the truth, I've learnt a lot in this ACDG. Especially about how to loosen up and not to be too serious about a lot of things. Many times if you look at an incident from another perspect, or at a different time, you'd have much different feelings.

	15-06-2004 02:51									#413
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by GeoModder CyCon didn't had any planes at the time. Something that could easily be checked by infiltration info from the Drones.

I was actually trying to say let you build the base, it would not be defended, and would not be a serious threat for the Hive. However IIRC the information is that you are getting DOP or already got it so you could make planes and use the base.

	15-06-2004 05:52									#414
	Suffering from ads?

quote: To tell the truth, I've learnt a lot in this ACDG. Especially about how to loosen up and not to be too serious about a lot of things. Many times if you look at an incident from another perspect, or at a different time, you'd have much different feelings.

Me too

	17-06-2004 02:43									#415
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

From my part, although not the most active in proceedings, when I was about and up-to-date, it seemed form Hive communications that there were worse activity problems in the Hive than in the CPU, namely that the one or two people who were active were Spamski (until he defected) and HongHu almost alone, and if we had their approval/support as communicated to us, that counted for a LOT. I really didn't know there were other active members of the Hive who did not favour working with us, and that is why it puzzled me when the Hive seemed to talk to us with one face yet talk more friendly to other factions with another face.

There's some real communicating situations issues here

	17-06-2004 02:54									#416
	Remove this text

No, the issue's decided even before you joined MWIA. When you joined it was me and Rubin and Mead I think who were the major Hive players and the fate of the game has already been decided. What we are talking about here for example the Hive Drone alliances really happened long before you joined.

	17-06-2004 03:16									#417
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Very sad to hear. So I should have (in hindsight) not pushed to trust you guys?

	19-06-2004 01:25									#418
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

It was almost too late to push for trusting the Hive after the council motion. There was one chance though I offered to you, disguised with a joke about hanging Jamski. You guys could have got me to work with you again after the PUT was gone. You should have already known at that time that PUT was Hive's main enemy and the Hive's was not going to change its attitude toward it. However even at that time it was still not determined that the Hive must destroy the CCs. However nobody picked up my hint.

	19-06-2004 01:32									#419
	Support Apolyton

I was the one who proposed the unification between PUT and CyCon. So personally I preferred defeat over betraying PUT, even if that would mean victory.

	19-06-2004 01:47									#420
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Just posted so as well in the Hive forum, but I and Obstructor did sent friendly signals to you, HongHu. Your response came down to that you didn't thought the remainder of Hive would except it at this stage of the game. We simply gave up then and made the best of it.