20-10-2003 23:27									#31
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quote: If nothing else, it's a lot more interesting than the melting pot.

I agree: civil war is interesting.

Look, as long as the people that make the majority believe in the same values, everything will be cool. And many immigrants ARE absorbed in the community, so, so far, so good. But some immigrants are, and some aren't, and sometimes, the immigrants start forcing different policies in their localities, in a way that pushes the old people out. It's clear why that happens.

OTOH, this boils down to the question, do you think that your values are better than the immigrants? I think so.

I am an immigrant, but I've fully integrated into Israeli society. When I see people who don't want to learn the language, or lock themselves in their cultural ghetto, it makes me sad, and angry.

	20-10-2003 23:44									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy A "lump 'em all together" statement if ever I saw one. It's like like saying all Israeli's spit on at least 1 Arab a day - complete bollocks.

Bollocks to you, sunshine. Unlike some people I actually read that link, and picked up this....

quote: In a surprise move, the SVP announced it would put forward party figurehead Christoph Blocher as its candidate for a second SVP cabinet seat at the expense of one of the centrist parties in elections for the ruling, four-party coalition in December. Under a 1959 deal, the Swiss cabinet has been divided among the main political parties. The "magic formula" gives the SVP one cabinet seat while the SP, the liberal Free Democrats (FDP) and the centre-right Christian Democrats (CVP) hold two seats each -- a reflection of their comparative size at the time. "We have achieved a historic goal," SVP President Ueli Maurer said. "It is clear we must have a second minister. We need a strong personality." Blocher, head of the Zurich chapter of the SVP, has courted controversy in the past, facing allegations before the 1999 election that he praised a book which denied the Holocaust.

So the person they're ("they" being the SVP) promoting is one who praises works of holocaust denial.

Hence my comment about the SVP.

Now would anyone else like to take a pop from a position of total ignorance? Go on- I could do with a laugh. We've had two so far in this thread and I really need a few more to make it even.

Arseholes to everything. Try reading the presented links before attempting to stake out the moral high ground.

	21-10-2003 00:23									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: If nothing else, it's a lot more interesting than the melting pot. I agree: civil war is interesting. Look, as long as the people that make the majority believe in the same values, everything will be cool. And many immigrants ARE absorbed in the community, so, so far, so good. But some immigrants are, and some aren't, and sometimes, the immigrants start forcing different policies in their localities, in a way that pushes the old people out. It's clear why that happens. OTOH, this boils down to the question, do you think that your values are better than the immigrants? I think so. I am an immigrant, but I've fully integrated into Israeli society. When I see people who don't want to learn the language, or lock themselves in their cultural ghetto, it makes me sad, and angry.

maybe this case will interest you

quote: Man jailed for isolating his wife An Oslo court has sentenced a man to three years in prison for abusing his immigrant wife and preventing her from integrating into Norwegian society. Prosecutors describe the case as unique, and perhaps precedent-setting.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/l...rticleID=651613

	21-10-2003 00:29									#34
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This is very sad, and is an example of this happening forcefully.

I wonder how many such cases exist.

However, it doesn't alway happen forcefully. That doesn't change the fact that it's a problem ( of course, it's even more of a problem when it's done in such an abusive manner )

	21-10-2003 00:41									#35
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I think there are many of these cases. Many muslim women live in fear of their male relatives. Some who try to integrate are beaten or worse. All because of "family honour".
I don't think this applies to the majority of muslim families though, just som hardcore ones.

But I do think this kind of "culture" is primitive and I see no reason to accept it.

	21-10-2003 01:10									#36
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I know all too well about that "Family Honour" bullshit.

	21-10-2003 02:14									#37
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quote: I don't know... The "cultural mosaic" policy seems to be working pretty well in Canada, at least by my estimation

Yes, the 9/11 hijackers liked that too

I'm not saying that I'm anti-immigrant, considering I'm an immigrant as well (from Romania) would be pretty stupid- but I never, never questioned the fact that I had to follow my new country's rules, the fact I was born in an orthodox country did never affect me, and I went around telling people not to say anymore "Merry Christmas" because I was offended. I just don't like people asking me to say Happy Holidays at 25 december,and schools even proposed about cancelling christmas celebrations and replacing them with a "multiethnic festivity"

	21-10-2003 03:16									#38
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I think Hell just froze over. I thought the Swiss were some of the most progressive people in the world.

	21-10-2003 04:06									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit I just don't like people asking me to say Happy Holidays at 25 december,and schools even proposed about cancelling christmas celebrations and replacing them with a "multiethnic festivity"

That reminds me of history as it is often tought now in The United States. A kid asked the teacher what Thanksgiving was all about and she said "The Pilgrims were thanking the Indians."

	21-10-2003 04:42									#40
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There's nothing wrong with the cultural mosaic policy.

	21-10-2003 05:58									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln That reminds me of history as it is often tought now in The United States. A kid asked the teacher what Thanksgiving was all about and she said "The Pilgrims were thanking the Indians."

Well, they probably should have been.

	21-10-2003 06:06									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I think Hell just froze over. I thought the Swiss were some of the most progressive people in the world.

The Swiss as a nation probably has the highest standard of living in the world. And they'll keep it jealously. It is not the first time they vote for the far right, and it's not the last time either

Fortunately, the Swiss cabinet has very little power. Referendums are the things which decide on important policies. Unfortunately, the Swiss sometimes vote for some very ant-progressive laws with that

	21-10-2003 06:33									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit Why, if you're so concerned then save everyone and invite them at your place, away from the evil europeans

what a pathetic comment.

	21-10-2003 07:57									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin I'd say xenophobia is almost a universal trait that exists in most societies.

Only in those dirty foreigners.

	21-10-2003 10:15									#45
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quote: Why, if you're so concerned then save everyone and invite them at your place, away from the evil europeans

And we usually do .

	21-10-2003 12:24									#46
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Every part of the word had a period of mass children production some time... Europe had -and it flooded USA,
today Muslim countries have -and they flood Europe. But fear not. Oneday christianised African countries will, and they will flood Muslim countries perhaps. Or at least Europe.
Anyway, is Europe xenophobic? Not more than any other region. America may allow mass immigration, because it leaves on a land that does not belong to any specific group. I do not count Indians. Imagine what would it be if a mass of imigrants flooded the states that send emmigrants today... Would they act differently? Yes. They would act worse,.

	21-10-2003 17:49									#47
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quote: Originally posted by rixxe Holocaust Denial

hi ,

the IHR got a courtcase in belgium a while ago , 6 months for one person , the other still on the run got a year sentence , ......

funny how the ihr shows up in this , ...... for they themselfs are on the base of the denial of the Shoah , .......

have a nice day

	21-10-2003 22:17									#48
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quote: Originally posted by cinch I don't know... The "cultural mosaic" policy seems to be working pretty well in Canada, at least by my estimation. If nothing else, it's a lot more interesting than the melting pot.

No melting pot in Canada, oh no. They are just delighted to have Italian speakers, Yiddish speakers, etc in Montreal Or to let the Italians, etc learn to speak English if they want to Oh, and they're even happier with the native Canadians, right?

	21-10-2003 22:20									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I don't think these policies are necissarially racist. The thing people are pissed off about isn't that the immigrants are of a different race they are angry that they come to a new country (in this case Switzerland) and don't bother to speak the local language or attempt to culturally blend in with their new countrymen. If I moved to France then I feel the French have every right to want me to speak French and to dress like a Frenchman because I am in their country. If someone were to come to my country then I would expect them to learn English and behaive in a manner acceptable to the prevailing culture. This idea that all cultures are equal and no society is better then another is just a plain lie because in every way we can measure things some societies really do provide better protections and opportunities then others. We should be promoting those cultural elements which have proven successful in the past and eliminating those cultural elements which have been such absolute failures.

Yup, theyre gonna move to Switzerland, let them learn to speak Swiss dammit!!

LOTM
Another proud product of American public schools.

	21-10-2003 22:25									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: If nothing else, it's a lot more interesting than the melting pot. I agree: civil war is interesting. Look, as long as the people that make the majority believe in the same values, everything will be cool. And many immigrants ARE absorbed in the community, so, so far, so good. But some immigrants are, and some aren't, and sometimes, the immigrants start forcing different policies in their localities, in a way that pushes the old people out. It's clear why that happens. OTOH, this boils down to the question, do you think that your values are better than the immigrants? I think so. I am an immigrant, but I've fully integrated into Israeli society. When I see people who don't want to learn the language, or lock themselves in their cultural ghetto, it makes me sad, and angry.

Yup, its those damned Anglo-saxonim, isnt Azazel ? Sitting around reading Shakespeare, refraining from eating sunflower seeds, FORMING LINES for heavens sake!!! Next thing you know they'll be making Israelis listen to Madonna - watch out, it could happen

	21-10-2003 22:56									#51
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quote: what a pathetic comment

For a pathetic mind

	21-10-2003 22:56									#52
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There are many things wrong with Israeli culture, I fully agree.

quote: There's nothing wrong with the cultural mosaic policy.

Other than saying this, do you have anything to back it up?

	21-10-2003 22:58									#53
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quote: Other than saying this, do you have anything to back it up?

In France jews and muslims happily live together, you know

	22-10-2003 00:09									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit In France jews and muslims happily live together, you know

*cough*

	22-10-2003 00:12									#55
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he was ironic, panag.

	22-10-2003 01:58									#56
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quote: *cough*

	22-10-2003 02:46									#57
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark No melting pot in Canada, oh no. They are just delighted to have Italian speakers, Yiddish speakers, etc in Montreal Or to let the Italians, etc learn to speak English if they want to Oh, and they're even happier with the native Canadians, right?

... wait...

What? Are you referring to specific cases, here? Because I can tell you that there is a HUGE Italian population in Toronto, especially, and they are allowed to practice their language and culture as they see fit (I mean, yeah, there's a bit of melting pot in there, if you want to get into OFFICIAL languages, but that has to be there, simply for judicial/legislative purposes).

To be quite honest, I'm not even sure if I disagree with you, because I'm a bit confused as to what you're saying. Are you saying Canadians aren't happy with natives? I... need... clarification!

PS: As for Montreal... Uh, Frogger or someone can answer that one. But remember that Quebec has harsh language laws as opposed to the rest of Canada.

	22-10-2003 03:16									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit For a pathetic mind

ur cute in ur utter lack of content. its like a hollow drum. somehow they're always louder.

	22-10-2003 03:26									#59
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quote: ur cute in ur utter lack of content. its like a hollow drum. somehow they're always louder

How entertaining, another silly person getting rid of his sexual frustration by bothering others on the net.. please, do that again, I need more laughter

	22-10-2003 03:28									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit How entertaining, another silly person getting rid of his sexual frustration by bothering others on the net.. please, do that again, I need more laughter

*yawn*