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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Flubber
4. the poorest of the poor are usually homeless, with health, alcohol or drug problems-- hardly fertile ground for energetic revolutionaries. Among those in the next economic strata there is usually enough of a social safety net to meet basic needs |
Actually, this is where I would grant Che a point. I think he has said that things can change very fast. The 30's were a good example of that. Able bodied, working people suffered a great deal. Violent change was in the air, only to be repressed by force and or assuaged by social programs.
What does that have to do with now? I am led to believe that there are growing numbers of people who are fully capable of working and who do in fact work hard at one or more jobs, but what they earn in those jobs is not nearly enough to get ahead, or in some cases even to survive. Conditions are nowhere like they were in the 30's, but any time you get any great number of people who are active and productive, but who are not getting ahead you are asking for trouble.
I highly doubt that communist revolution is likely anywhere in the West, but something is going to have to change and/or adjust, or there is going to be some trouble.
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JohnT
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Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
You've obviously ignored my point that this doesn't matter since the amount wealth the 5-25 percentiles is still low, in comparison to the upper 1 percentile, for example. |
So? Take the aggregate $955 billion that the top 400 richest Americans own and divide it amongst the American population and you have destroyed a social order thousands of years in the making... for a mere $357.14 per person. Good going! 
quote:
I already answered it. it seems that you're ignoring my points instead of adressing them. |
No, you answered it assuming that I was just going to accept your implicit assumption that your University is not a consumable resource that benefits you to the tens of thousands of dollars a year, despite how much you pay in tuition. You could sacrifice your college education to help a scholarship winner from Mozambique - why not?
You are richer than you think. You are the Elite.
quote:
That's great! I have no problem of giving you a high salary, even a very high one, as long as:
a) you deserve it.
b) you'll be a wage earner, not a capitalist.
c) your power in influencing the economical future of society will be given to you by the people, and not something that is enherently yours ( going back to point b ).
d) Those amounts of money, though very large, are not astronomical. |
a. Who determines that? You?
b. Mere definitions, words whose meaning change with the passage of time, words that even to millions are not contradictory. Remember it is the Left who must keep up their artificial distinction between "worker" and "manager", between "financier" and "operator." I don't mess with such silly distinctions because I understand that all peoples work, they are all necessary in todays world, and that they get paid according to the value of their product.
c. A fundamental misunderstanding of the use of power. Authority is taken and fought for... not given to. In my life, the very fact that I have told the world that I am in charge of my little part of it (by starting/taking over my companies) gives me the right to influence the economic future of the world in my own small way - it isn't something just granted somebody by some nebulous force, rather it is a responsibility assumed.
However, not very many people want that sort of authority and even of those who do, even fewer are good at it.
d. Define "astronomical." $100k? $500k? $3.2 mil. with stock options? $200 million? (George Lucas's take the year Phantom Menace came out) $550 million (Michael Milken, 1987. Damn that was a nice year.  )
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
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OK. As I said, what Dean has not done yet is call for nationalization of US business and suspension of the Republican party. But, short of that, he advocates every position that any commie would. He is anti-business, anti-trade, anti-globilization, anti-religion, pro-environmental extremism, favors class warfare, is unwilling to use force to confront socialist governments (read Saddam). He is anti-Israel.
He represents a major step toward communism.
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NeOmega
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Play Pentagenesis Beta!
Feb 2002
time: 21:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
OK. As I said, what Dean has not done yet is call for nationalization of US business and suspension of the Republican party. But, short of that, he advocates every position that any commie would. He is anti-business, anti-trade, anti-globilization, anti-religion, pro-environmental extremism, favors class warfare, is unwilling to use force to confront socialist governments (read Saddam). He is anti-Israel.
He represents a major step toward communism. |
really.... his calls for deregulation of the prescription drug industry anti-business... hmm. Anti-trade? Who could be more anti-trade than the trade war master himself Dubya? (Note steel and timber) Dean just wants labor laws in parity with the U.S.'s if we are to trade with them.... Anti-globalization..... "the U.N. is irrelevant" was not Dean's assertion. Pro-environmental extremism how? Favors class warfare? Unwilling to use force to confront Socialist governments.... rich.... so now the Iraq War was to stop Socialism  anti_israel..... no... he is just not pro-Israel. There is a position that could be taken called "neutral", and the peace process might be able to succeed if the U.S. were to take that stance.
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28-10-2003 05:31
) they have to forecast so far out in the future as to make all projections, a-hem!, "scenarios" useless.
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