26-10-2003 20:18									#1
	Do You Use the Luxury Slider? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I almost never use the luxury slider. I leave it locked at 0% most of the time. I have achieved a score over 6500 on emporer without luxuries.

I use entertainers. Also, no luxuries usefully forces me to build the happiness-creating improvements like markets and cathedrals that also bring other benefits.

I suppose the only time I use the slider is during revolution or city riots to prevent my nuclear power plants from melting down, but that is not predictably effective.

In general, I find the slider too imprecise. I have no idea how much happiness I am 'purchasing' with every 10%. I know much better, though. what I am getting from markets, colosseums etc.

I am curious what others do. Please tell if you find luxuries more useful, and how so.

	26-10-2003 20:25									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes, early on it is very useful.

	26-10-2003 21:34									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Oohoo you have opened Pandora's box now...
-
The lux slider is probably the most powerfull tool you have in this game.
The money you loose, you regain partly because you have more city workers and in the long term you make a profit due to faster and continued growth.
Since growth is the core of this game as all else depends on it....

Do a search on this forum, there is a very good thread about this subject. Probably created by ' Alexman'.

	26-10-2003 21:36									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Nope, I was wrong, it was made by Nathan

the power of the luxury slider

	26-10-2003 23:30									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have slowly come to appreciate the lux slider more. I tend to make a few calculations to see if it is better to slider or entertain, usually it is slider.

	26-10-2003 23:32									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Using an Entertainer costs shields, food, and gold to make em happy. Slider just costs the gold.

	27-10-2003 00:24									#7
	Got spare money?

I used to be completely averse to using the slider but I've come to appreciate its place in my tool box.

I agree with Farb, shields are far more valuable than gold, I would much rather lose a couple gold than a couple food and shields per turn.


But like everything else, it just depends on the situation, If you only have one city that needs the slider, then you're probably better off just with an entertainer, but if you have several, then the slider is the way to go, at least for me.

	27-10-2003 00:47									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I used to be completely averse to using the slider but I've come to appreciate its place in my tool box. I agree with Farb, shields are far more valuable than gold, I would much rather lose a couple gold than a couple food and shields per turn. But like everything else, it just depends on the situation, If you only have one city that needs the slider, then you're probably better off just with an entertainer, but if you have several, then the slider is the way to go, at least for me.

Ditto what Sleepy said. I try not to use the slider unless I have to, meaning I try to keep my people happy through luxuries and/or happiness improvements. But whenever it is necessary to use the slider I don't hesitate to do so. It is definitely situational (the one city example Sleepy mentioned is a good one), but for more than one city it is almost always better to use the slider and lose the gold than lose the food, shields and gold. Food and shields are precious. Gold isn't (generally)

	27-10-2003 03:13									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

I use the luxury slider very often (practically in every game), both in the early game and later on, if I lack enough luxuries to get my cities to size 12 by other means. It is, of course, an unfair advantage over the AI, because it doesn't do it, although it should.

	27-10-2003 04:37									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I reckon the lux slider is a great asset.

more power to it.

	27-10-2003 05:01									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I cannot imagine not using it... but if it's more than 20%, that is very rare.

	27-10-2003 05:22									#12
	Suffering from ads?

As others may know by now (the poor folks who had to play from my blocks in the AUSG), I rarely use Military Police early on, relying exclusively on Luxuries and the Luxury slider. Makes for a stronger early-game, IMO.


Dominae

	27-10-2003 05:50									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I use the luxury slider a lot. Particularly very early in the game when I have only one or two luxury goods and nothing more than a temple and military police in despotism. Luxury slider may go up to 30% to maintain happiness in my capital which I try to boost to size 12 to snaffle the Pyramids (this works well at regent).

	27-10-2003 11:38									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Me using it also depends on which city it is that needs it. Core cities definetly need the lux slider while cities at the fringe don't get the benefit from it as often since they are so corrupt anyway so the only thing you loose is food.

	27-10-2003 18:20									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I like the idea of using the slider to get your early cities up to 12. I hadn't thought of that, and happiness is pretty serious block until you get up cathedrals and colosseums. Thank you.

How do you define the effect of the slider? How many happy or content faces are you purchasing? Is there some way to know?

	27-10-2003 18:29									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The effect is calculated city by city and depends on the commerce the particular city makes after corruption. So if, for instance, a city after corruption makes 20 commerce and you have the slider at 20%, you're purchasing 4 (0.2 x 20) happy faces, which make content citizens happy as long as there are some, and unhappy citizens content, if none.

	27-10-2003 20:26									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I always use it. Normally between 10-20%, though it can get up to 30%. Depends on the luxury resources situation, if I'm religious, etc.

-Arrian

	27-10-2003 20:28									#18
	Remove this text

quote: ...suppose the only time I use the slider is during revolution...

Not possible, by the way. If you're in anarchy, adjusting your sliders (tax/sci/lux) will have no effect. All commerce (and production) is lost in anarchy.

-Arrian

	28-10-2003 06:16									#19
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I use it extensively in the early game -- somtimes getting as high as 40% - 50% if REXing growthor early war demands it. It usually levels off to no more than 10% - 20% by the end of the ancient age through the Middle Ages (with a spike or two occassionally )and hopefully goes to 0% permanently by the Industrial Age.

Catt

	28-10-2003 08:05									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If you're just starting to get unhappy faces due to size (in Despotism, Monarchy or Republic) and more military police is either impossible or impractical, putting 10% luxuries on tends to cost you very few gold and give you a happy face in almost every city - almost always enough to tide you over a few more pop points, or at least until you can fix your happiness problems long-term.

	30-10-2003 18:01									#21
	Precise Effect of Lux Slider Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Sir Ralph,

I liked you your equation. Basically, you said that for each gold piece of commerce I spend in a city on luxuries, I receive one happy face from a content citizen or one content face from an unhappy citizen. For example, if my city produces 10 gold, after corruption, and my lux slider is at, say, 20%, then I am spending 2 (20%) of my 10 gold pieces from my city on luxuries. This brings 2 citizens either to happy from content or from unhappy to content. The direct correlation between spending 2 gold and achieving 2 improvements in happiness is pleasingly precise. That is the exact effect, what one 'purchases' with the slider.

I am repeating this because, 1) I want to be sure I understand, and 2) I am curious if anyone can verify that this equation holds. If it does, then happiness and contentment are rather reasonably priced.

Anyone on this ?

	30-10-2003 18:41									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by SorvinoBackhand 1) I want to be sure I understand 2) I am curious if anyone can verify that this equation holds. If it does, then happiness and contentment are rather reasonably priced.

1) Yes, apparently you do.
2) You can take my word for it. It's verified many times.

A "content face", like a temple, colosseum or cathedral produces, can only make an unhappy citizen content. If there are no unhappy citizens in this city, the effect is lost.

A "happy face", like luxury access or the luxury slider produces, tries first to make a content citizen happy, and if there's none in the city, it tries second to make an unhappy citizen content. Only if all citizens already are happy, the effect is wasted.

Example:

Emperor (1 citizen born content), size 12 city, Despotism
U = unhappy, C = content, H = happy.

Without any improvement, the city looks like this:

C U U U U U U U U U U U

Let's now add a Temple (1 content face)

C C U U U U U U U U U U

Now let's place 2 units in the city (2 more content faces)

C C C C U U U U U U U U

Now let's imagine, the city has access to 4 luxuries, but no marketplace (4 happy faces). The four content citizens are made happy:

H H H H U U U U U U U U

Now let's imagine, the city makes 20 commerce (even though that'd be hard under despotism) and we set the slider to 10%. That makes 2 happy faces.

Since there is no content citizen in the city, the first one will make one unhappy citizen content:

H H H H C U U U U U U U

The second one makes this content citizen happy:

H H H H H U U U U U U U

Still the city would revolt. Let's try 20% luxuries, makes 4 happy faces, or 2 more than with 10%:

Since there is again no content citizen in the city, the first new one will make one unhappy citizen content:

H H H H H C U U U U U U

The second new one makes this content citizen happy:

H H H H H H U U U U U U

Voilą, this city won't revolt.

	30-10-2003 18:45									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

Keep in mind there is a downside, though... the lux slider operates on ALL of your cities - even on those you do not need extra happy faces in.

	30-10-2003 18:55									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

True, but the cities that aren't supposed to grow and don't need the extra happiness (mostly corrupt cities) don't make much commerce anyway, so that not much is wasted.

By the way: The commerce is counted before improvements like libs and marketplaces add their percentage. So don't be fooled if a city with a lib and a market gives less happy faces than it seemingly should.

	07-11-2003 04:42									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I agree with the majority. The slider is greaaaat!! My first Emperor game I found myself "hopelessly" behind. the I realized that the best way to catch up is with lotsa cities, and expanding with settlers wasn't going to work, because the computer would do it faster. Since people on this site were claiming to win at Diety, there had to be a strategy. That strategy is conquest, and the edge you get in production is extremely useful in war.

If your outer cities still need entertainers, you may want to build workers or settlers there.

Last edited by realpolitic on 07-11-2003 at 04:51