27-10-2003 08:31									#1
	A couple of trading exploits (new to me anyway) Enter the AD-FREE zone

In my current game I received a notice that America had signed a mutual protection pact with Persia whom I was at war with. America also had several techs which I did not have. I promptly rang up Abe and offered gold per turn for his techs (I didn't care how much he wanted as I wouldn't be paying anyway). I made the agreement and instantly moved a cavalry into Persian territory to pillage a square triggering war with America. The cost was the loss of one cavalry, and yet another war, in exchange for 3 industrial age techs which I considered a very good deal under the circumstances. It turned out there was no hit to my reputation.

The next stunt was definitely an exploit. Later, after I had made peace with Persia in return for a tech, I waited twenty turns and rang up Xerxes. I offered whatever gpt/resources/luxuries he wanted for three techs and then instantly declared war (without leaving the diplomacy menu) to avoid paying. This DID NOT appear to effect my reputation as a couple of centuries later I gave gpt and resources to the French in exchange for a tech. (I actually honoured that agreement ). Umh, I was certain it would cost me my reputation.

	27-10-2003 09:38									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

That doesn't sound right... screwing with Persia should have hit you.

	27-10-2003 10:08									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Theseus That doesn't sound right... screwing with Persia should have hit you.

That was exactly what I thought. I could understand getting away with how I swindled the Americans but I do not understand how my reputation seemed unscathed after I cheated the Persians.

The only explanation I can think of is that by declaring war instantly, and without leaving Persia in the diplomacy menu, the game did not register the gpt deal and therefore did not register my breach of a deal. This seems to be a bug.

Both France and I were at war with Persia when I signed the deal with France (and France was Gracious) but so far as I know my reputation should have been too stuffed for any such deal regardless of circumstances.

EDIT.
I don't have the latest version of PTW if that makes any difference.

	27-10-2003 10:39									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I've traded GPT for 2 industrial techs to France on the brink of destruction. The next turn they were eliminated so I only paid them for 1 turn. That didn't hurt my rep at all either.

	27-10-2003 10:40									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Anybody have a clue here?

	27-10-2003 11:47									#6
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Theseus Anybody have a clue here?

Not only do not have a clue, I didn't know there were any clues!

	27-10-2003 20:47									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

i think i can explain both.
in the first you had no trades or treaties with persia, correct? in normal circumstances declairing war on someone who you have no treaties with will not give you a strong rep hit.
triggering war with america that way to avoid paying is deffinately a bug/exploit.

for the next case i am not so sure. if you didn't meet france until after you conquered all of your current neighbors that would explain it. another explenation is if you just offered, say, luxeries with persia, then traded gold and recources with france, but not luxeries. is that the case?

	28-10-2003 04:53									#8
	Remove this text

zorbop,

Yes, I believe it was. I thought that made no difference though? Does it?

My trade with America was only gold per turn for his tech (and I was already at war with Persia).

The trade with France was only resources and luxuries for her tech (and we were both at war with Persia then but I thought that would make no difference).

All civilisations were in contact with all other civs since long before I swindled either the Americans or the Persians.

	28-10-2003 09:08									#9
	Suffering from ads?

welll, thinjk about it. when you normally declair war on someone for no real reason, do you get a rep hit? no, not unless you are trading with them, which you were not trading then with persia (in the first case). if you had attacked america outright you would have taken a rep hit since you had a deal with them. but you did NOT declair war on america, you attacked persia, and america was then forced to declair war on you, so you get no rep hit. doing this should be legal, but considered an exploit if you do it speccifically to avoid paying the gold.



for the second case what did you trade to persia before declairing war? if it was only gold per turn with persia, and you did not trade gold per turn before swindling france, that would make sense. you only take a rep hit WITH the things you trade. if not theni would not know what the answer is....

	28-10-2003 11:36									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Nope, you get a rep hit for all things of the per turn sort. Eg, if you screw the computer on a deal involving you giving luxs you woun't be able to get gpt deals after either. The only way to get the computer to take a per turn deal is to ask for per turn stuff, and ONLY per turn stuff. For example, you've gotten the per turn rep hit and wan't to trade away your silk, you can get 5 gpt for it but you woun't get 1 gold for it since that means the computer giving you something straight up.

So, I don't understand how that last part worked, unless you traded with per turn stuff to get per turn stuff.

	01-11-2003 08:46									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

What happens if I give a civ a tech, or lump sum for a lux, and then the lux gets cut off. Is my rep still OK? It ought to be since I'm the one that got cheated.

	02-11-2003 01:10									#12
	Sliders and Trades with AIs Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

OK, this is only indirectly related, but as the topic began with trading tricks...

One thing that helps to get the best deal from the AIs when trading for anything that requires PER-TURN payouts is to first set your expense sliders (Research and Happiness) to a low level (when in doubt 0) before initiating contact with your AI trading partner. The reason is that the AI de-risks its trades through awareness of your present gold and expense/turn levels.

For example, if you are running a per-turn deficit, the AI may not trade with you at all. If you are running a huge per-turn surplus, you'll get a reasonable deal. By setting your expense sliders back before trade, the AI will react as if you are running a good treasury and will be at its most receptive for trade, as well as give you its best rates.

This technique can make the difference between getting a trade from an AI or not.

Of course you MUST remember to set your sliders back up to their correct levels before you complete your turn.

- bvc

	02-11-2003 01:45									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

For the second case... If you don't exit the diplomacy screen, does the other AIs considers the deal done? If no, then we might get a clue here...

--Kon--