28-10-2003 04:01									#1
	SMC office 1834...:hmmm: Inflate your Upload Space

I have looked at the save...and looked again...and again... but I really don't see much I could start planning

We have no real decent maps of enemy territory where I could do some planning.

The americans
I like the plan of getting a cease fire(maybe even peace *SMC wishful thinking* ) so their democracy can collaps when they sneak attack us...
(we might try to obtain it after killing their last unknown city if we get lucky and find it)

If that miracle doesn't happen we have 2 options for taking Bombay
1) kill all our cavalry against the wall's(a )
2) build extra diplo's and cavalry, take down the walls and create our private little massacre.
(cities building those reinforcements:
Phlegethon, plenty, nognix, Kostunrix, Flood, Hoefnix,Obelix and Devastation)
(half a dozen diplo's might be enough, I hope)
How the units will be delivered: along the railroad currently beeing constructed)

Germans
I can not do any decent planning since we have no info about their terrain...So I won't engage in difficult strategies to take down Hannover.(maybe only bribe it and use it as stronghold to send out our troops from this place to infest the German Imperium.

Greeks
those are kind of a problem. They are a democracy(so to bribing ) and we only know some periferical cities. I suggest we try to explore more of their lands before we start planning grandscale-invasion)
(Mytilene and Issus are still on the target list though)
Maybe we should build some extra Alpines in Rhodos and Argos to explore the vast amount of black squares

Russians
They are brave, joining the war against us.
Let's whipe them out asap. We have 5 Diplo's close, send them in to take down the walls of moscow and then let the cavalry(We'll need to build some extra of them in outpost) charge in and save the Tsarrina from those heathens.

I guess this should be it...This is all I can present...
but we need more exploration first.

(3 days for voting)

Shade

	28-10-2003 04:13									#2
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forgot a screenshot of Moscow and our diplomats

Attachment: russia.jpg
This has been downloaded 36 time(s).

	28-10-2003 04:23									#3
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I think, when we have numerous Dips in place, we should just use them all to try and take down the City Walls at Moscpw.. We have 5 Cannon, a Cav, a Cav-to be, and 3 Dips on the way.

It's worthwhile to eliminate a whole civ rather than let it exist and grow a few more cities to kill.

	28-10-2003 04:25									#4
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or before they become democratic...
(whatelse would we do with our money if we didn't bribe St'petersburg )

Shade

	28-10-2003 04:30									#5
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True, we could find and take the non-capital Rus city... And we could always try to starve the Rus capital after...

	28-10-2003 06:50									#6
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I like the rather more warlike options.

As for Hannover, if it is not too expensive, we should bribe.

Otherwise, we'll use the money for troops.

	28-10-2003 07:35									#7
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They have only two cities? I know they emerged due to the eliminated Romans, but REALLY!

Find any non-capital cities any bribe 'em, then take down the Walls and take Moscow. Make a snack of them.

	28-10-2003 15:34									#8
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Yep, they only have 2 cities and a 703G treasury...So we might consider taking down Moscow first(St Petersburg would be cheapre that way).

It's snack time

Shade

	28-10-2003 15:54									#9
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How about sending a dip in to investigate what Moscow has to offer first. Do you think that would be a waste of a potential wall-destroyer, or a better way of working out how many dips we'll need and then how many troops after that? Either way, we should run them into the ground and not mess about buying St Petersburg.

	28-10-2003 16:31									#10
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Well if they can't move capitals and have only two cities for sure (is that from an Embassy?), then let's bust the Walls and take out Moscow quickly, then on to Leningrad, or whatever!

	28-10-2003 17:12									#11
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york How about sending a dip in to investigate what Moscow has to offer first. Do you think that would be a waste of a potential wall-destroyer, or a better way of working out how many dips we'll need and then how many troops after that? Either way, we should run them into the ground and not mess about buying St Petersburg.

we'll need a lot of them since they have no target(and will take down the wall's probably last )so we can just keep sending diplo's in until the job is done and then check for troops.

quote: Well if they can't move capitals and have only two cities for sure (is that from an Embassy?), then let's bust the Walls and take out Moscow quickly, then on to Leningrad, or whatever!

Yes it's from the embassy.

Shade

	06-11-2003 19:56									#12
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Given Hannover's location, and the estimated cost, does our new SMC feel the resources would be available to take Hannover by force?

	06-11-2003 20:39									#13
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Yes, with a little planning we can take out all 3 city's with the units we have now (needless to say more are being build as we speak )

But please take some extra engineers to make sure there isnt going to be a German counterattack or bribe from the south, make instant forts with 4-5 fanatics on all roads south from Hannover.
(We dont see them yet but Hannover must be connected with the rest of their core by now and with the size reduction bribing it will be very cheap for them)

	07-11-2003 11:49									#14
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I can't remember how I voted on the bribe Hanover question, but I would certainly not have voted for bribing it at a cost of 9,000.

RJM at Sleeper's

	07-11-2003 16:26									#15
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Me neither. Polls and Minister recomendations are only as good as the best info available, and in light of new info like the sheer cost, citizens, Ministers + the Prez must be able to ignore the result of less well-informed polling situations is favour of better info. Thus I would hope we take the thing with force rather than delaying techs in order to build up the 9000 gold for the one measly city.

	07-11-2003 16:38									#16
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quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers I can't remember how I voted on the bribe Hanover question, but I would certainly not have voted for bribing it at a cost of 9,000. RJM at Sleeper's

9000G...somehow this seems overexpensive(cfr costs of american cities in Rep < 2000G(even with 2 wonders and close to the capital))

btw I wonder how one has calculated this number?

It's a Size 9 city(2 wonders: SoL and Darwin's(wondermenu))
the city-bribe formulas
GR := DF * GF * S
DF=1000/(D+3)
D=12 (Hannover(37,73),Berlin(21,77), just use findcity)
==> DF=66,6666666
GF=(1+Gold)/1000
==>GF=(1+8444)/1000=8,445
S= size of city=9
no modification for the diplo.

==> GR=5067Gold (if I use real numbers,4824 if I use Integer rounded numbers)

We can expect that the city will be larger then the size 9 we know... let's give them an awfull lot of growth potential=> Size 15 would give us:8445G(or 8040)

I think 7000G might be a good estimate for it's cost, I would really doubt the city would cost more.

Shade

	07-11-2003 16:48									#17
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also if we place our diplomat on the square right of Hannover the distance wetween the unit and Berlin will be maximum so lowest cost(distance 13 instead of 12)

Attachment: bribehan.jpg
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	07-11-2003 18:04									#18
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You are right. The distance can be 13, but the true size of Hannover is also 13. Press f8 for update on size of Hannover.

And you misinterpreted the formula. Here is the true formula:

Bribe cost = (civ’s treasury + 1000)/(distance + 3)*(city size)

Assume Germans are going to have 9000 by the time we get in position to bribe Hannover. Assume the distance is 13. Assume there is no courthouse inside.

Bribe cost = (10000)/(16)*(13) = 625*13 = 8125.

Sorry guys, it's 8000 not 9000 if we bribe from a distance of 13.

Last edited by Ljube on 07-11-2003 at 18:10

	07-11-2003 18:49									#19
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quote: Originally posted by ljcvetko You are right. The distance can be 13, but the true size of Hannover is also 13. Press f8 for update on size of Hannover. And you misinterpreted the formula. Here is the true formula:

1)Got the formula from the GL(cfr link)
2) they give about the same result using the same values

3) maybe something we might want to consider to reduce the bribing cost: poisoning the Hannover population!
both formulas use city-size*factor. this factor beeing between 500 and 600 would be a nice cost reduction.
4 diplo's: 3xpoison + 1x bribe
3x poisoning would reduce the cost by 1500 to 1800G
(4 rushed diplo's=840G)


Shade

	07-11-2003 19:11									#20
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4 diplos thrown into the city in the hope of destroying improvements (walls for example ), would drastically reduce the unit cost of smashing the city defenders to bits!

	07-11-2003 19:26									#21
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Unfortunately diplos can't poison the water supply, we'll need spies for that task.

	07-11-2003 21:57									#22
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quote: 3) maybe something we might want to consider to reduce the bribing cost: poisoning the Hannover population!

Or as I suggested, knock down the walls, and send in the calvary which will lower the population as we defeat the defenders. No need to wait for spies.

I'll play the turn after my classes this morning and I finish my paper.

	07-11-2003 22:41									#23
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quote: Originally posted by atawa Unfortunately diplos can't poison the water supply, we'll need spies for that task.

oeps
just assumed they could do this too...darn


Shade

	08-11-2003 07:10									#24
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I think we would need at least 6 Dips to have a good hope of getting at the city walls. But we would sure have a lesser city when we took it. I think the Dips will destroy almost everything before they take down the city-walls.