28-10-2003 17:02									#1
	FP moves to Korea. Farewell and request for advice. Suffering from ads?

In two weeks time I will be in South Korea (Daegu to be exact) with my girlfriend where we shall be teaching English at a kindergarten.

The contract is for a year, and we might go travelling in Asia for a month afterwards, so the chances of my coming back to England (and regular internet access with lots of free time) before Christmas 2004 are pretty slim. Since a year of internet time is the equivalent to several ice ages of normal time I am therefore officially Leaving Forever. I'll be making frequent visits to a PC to send emails home, and will try and find time to pop up here occasionally, but I can't promise anything.

Like most people who Leave Forever I will eventually come back, but by then some of you will have left and those that remain will have totally forgotten who I am, so this is the time to say goodbye.

Also, I'd like to ask people who have done this sort of thing (Boshko, Seeker) and others who have lived in Korea (Q^3, connorkimbro) if they have any advice for me. I'm aware of the broad cultural differences between the UK and Korea and am fully expecting a very strange experience at the beginning before I settle into my new surroundings. However, if you have any useful comments or advice (eg. things you wish you had known, things you wish you had brought with you) I'd be very grateful to hear them. One particular question I have to ask is about the indoor shoes that people wear in Korea. It seems logical for me to buy something suitable before I leave here, but since we don't have the same custom over here I'm unsure about exactly what these things are. A link to a picture/description of one would be appreciated.

The kindergarten we're working in is a new branch of a national franchise (Kid's Kingdom), which will doubtless provide it's own benefits and problems. Our accomodation is provided by the school (we pay no rent) so I'm not expecting very much from it, but I'll have to wait and see.

Working hours seem reasonable: teaching 6 hours a day between 10am-6pm plus an additional hour of unpaid preparation time. We have an agreed rate for overtime (15k won an hour IIRC), but our contract is quite clear that we are well within our rights to refuse to do overtime.

Class sizes are supposed to be a maximum of 10, and we're the only western teachers in the school.

2 weeks of holiday a year (one in winter, one in summer), plus the national holidays off of course. We plan to go to Japan for our summer break, which should be cool.

Take care of yourselves guys and I'll catch y'all later. I'll be hanging around for the next 10-12 days, but then I'm outta here.

Farewell.

	28-10-2003 17:19									#2
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haven't heard of kid's kingdom, but if it's anything like the newer primary schools that have begun to crop up in korea, it'll be enormously different from the standard schools... more like montessori or western, i guess, with less rote.

if you're lucky, they'll put you in a new apartment, and thus they shouldn't be too bad. it'll be high-rise, most likely, and smaller than a comparable apt that you'd get in the west, but that's a function of land.
oh, and before i forget, what they call an a.pa.teu is really more like a condo. you don't pay rent on it, you buy it and then pay for utilities.

i'll admit i've never been to daegu/taegu. i do know that you probably want to stay away from the subways, since there was a disaster in one recently because some psycho threw flammable liquid and... well, no sprinklers.

broadband access is cheap there, as much as dialup is here in the states. pc-bangs are everywhere, and iirc, the going rate is 5k won/hr. it's a far more net-aware society than anything in the west...

	28-10-2003 17:31									#3
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odd, i can't google it (or, use daum to find it, which uses google...). it's strange to have anything in korea not have a webpage these days...

i don't recall ever wearing shoes in the house... you do put on shoes for the bathroom, though. these are separate from the ones you wear outside, and tend to be plastic and grilled so water can drain out easily.
lemme see if i can find one...

	28-10-2003 19:14									#4
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When you show up we've got to get together some time for a couple beers. I'm more or less halfway between you and Seoul.

People never wear shoes indoors in Korea.
Bring spices and whatnot if you want to do cooking, they're hard to find here. Also bring deoderant and condoms and as the first doesn't exist here and the second aren't exactly the world's best. If you've got extra room in your luggage grab me a liter of taquila if you can find it duty free, its really expensive here (will pay you for it of course).

Wouldn't worry too much about the cuisine here. Its pretty good but in Daegu there won't be too much foreign restaurants besides fast food and maybe some Italians places and maybe somes kind of steak place. Even in Seoul foreign restaurants are rare and really really expensive.

Korea's got a really active night life and you can always hang around bars until you want to leave, have stayed out til 6 AM (when the Seoul subways open) and that's by no means exceptional. The only problem is the local beer while cheap, you can get a a 3 liter pitcher for about four and a half pounds if you know were to look, is absolute crap.

But basically the country is all right overall, I think you'll enjoy it. The only thing to worry about is your job.

A few things about your job made me worry a bit:

"teaching 6 hours a day"
Does this mean being at work for 6 hours or being in front of a class for 6 hours. If they don't count your couple-minute breaks and really split up your shift you could end up being obliged to be at work from 9-6 which wouldn't be too much fun. Also unless your contract says otherwise your bosses' temptation to find a few people who want to take english classes after work and really extend your schedule. Remember 6 hours of teaching a day can mean 8 spread-out 45 minutes classes (that's what I have). Really got stafted on this personally and I teach my first class at 10:30 AM while my last class ends at 9 PM.

quote: We have an agreed rate for overtime (15k won an hour IIRC)

15K/hour or 15K/class period. If its the later you're OK, if its the former you're being taken advantage of.

quote: accomodation is provided by the school (we pay no rent) so I'm not expecting very much from it, but I'll have to wait and see.

ALL foreign ESL teacher housing is provided by schools, there's no reason why you can't negotiate something good.

Also teaching ESL kindy isn't for everyone, its very unpopular with teachers here and for largely good reasons. If you're teaching kindy and not living in Seoul you should be getting over 2 million won a month. If you're getting less you can definately do better.

quote: it's anything like the newer primary schools that have begun to crop up in korea, it'll be enormously different from the standard schools... more like montessori or western, i guess, with less rote.

Nah, probably a run of the mill kindy hagwon.

If you've got money to spare come over on a tourist visa instead and find someplace cheap to stay (should be able to find 20,000 won a night accomodation) and find something that you can take a look at before you commit.

	28-10-2003 19:36									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko When you show up we've got to get together some time for a couple beers. I'm more or less halfway between you and Seoul.

Sounds good. I'll see if I can get you some tequila, but I imagine luggage space will be at a premium.

quote: A few things about your job made me worry a bit: "teaching 6 hours a day" Does this mean being at work for 6 hours or being in front of a class for 6 hours. *snip* Really got stafted on this personally and I teach my first class at 10:30 AM while my last class ends at 9 PM.

The contract says 6 hours of teaching between the hours of 10 and 6. I assume that's 6 hours class time. I don't think I care if I work 9 till 6 every day, that's sounds perfectly fine to me. I've been working 9 till 5 every day for the past 8 months so am not concerned about it.

quote: 15K/hour or 15K/class period. If its the later you're OK, if its the former you're being taken advantage of.

Hmm. I'll check that.

quote: Also teaching ESL kindy isn't for everyone, its very unpopular with teachers here and for largely good reasons.

What are those good reasons? Teaching 3-7 year olds sounds like good fun to me. I did similar stuff with kids of that age group a few years ago here (playing and helping kids with homework after school 8 hours a week) and loved it.

quote: If you're teaching kindy and not living in Seoul you should be getting over 2 million won a month. If you're getting less you can definately do better.

1.9 million I think (with a bonus month's pay for completing the contract). We'll no doubt meet other western teachers in the clubs and bars when we're out. If they can suggest any higher-paid places for us to work we can always quit and go somewhere else. I can't be bothered with fussing around to get the absiolute best possible deal, although obviously being ripped off is no fun. I'll certainly bear it in mind.

Thanks for the advice.

	28-10-2003 19:59									#6
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In China, teaching children is also the least desirable type of general English instruction. Some schools even pay more for it.

Teaching kindergarten is not for everyone because it requires a LOT of energy, it's a very physical type teaching. You have to do a lot of playing. You must also learn to act like a little kid, so that they will acept you and have fun with you. The kids have microscopically short attention spans, and as a foreigner you will be expected to be a master entertainer, filled with an inexhaustable cornucopia of exciting games. You must also be able to tolerate a great deal of singing moronic kids' songs over and over.

Also, you will be spending an hour teaching six words, so if you are going to teach English because you love the language, then you might re-consider.

If Korea is like China, teaching wee folks also invovles on-looking hand-wringing parents who will be very concerned about your methodology. In China, children (especially boys) can be horrifyingly spoiled brats ("Little Emporers"), hope Korea is different.

Be sure to bring along plenty of photographs from home. Not only do they help remedy homesickness, they can be great for the classroom. Right now I am using photos from a Halloween costume party I had a few years back. My Chinese students (both teens & adults) are fascinated.

Teaching English abroad can be a marvelous experience or a dismal nightmare, so much depends on the school and the circumstances. Good luck!

Last edited by mindseye on 28-10-2003 at 20:08

	28-10-2003 20:24									#7
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quote: 1.9 million I think (with a bonus month's pay for completing the contract).

1.9 for teaching morning kindy classes in the provinces is definately sub par. You can do better.

quote: Teaching kindergarten is not for everyone because it requires a LOT of energy, it's a very physical type teaching.

Yeah I have 2 kindy classes every three days and when they're good they're good and when they're bad they're awful. I should warn you that if you're teaching nothing but kindy you will have a least one small finger shoved up your ass every day (no matter what you do there's always a handful that will dongchim you every now and then). A lot of people hate middle school since they send to be sullen and withdrawn, but I've been doing a pretty good job at getting them to open up so I'm starting to really enjoy teaching them. The older the better as far as I'm concerned (although I do have a real soft spot for a couple wonderful 7-9 year olds).

quote: If they can suggest any higher-paid places for us to work we can always quit and go somewhere else. I can't be bothered with fussing around to get the absiolute best possible deal, although obviously being ripped off is no fun. I'll certainly bear it in mind.

Switching jobs is a real pain. I'm currently trying to do that to get a job that has a better schedule, doesn't pay me three weeks late and is closer to my gf and the way the Visa bureaucracy is set up it a real ***** (you need a new visa when you change jobs if you're not ethnically Korean or have a new Korean). Also if your boss really hates you and you quit he can deny you a release letter which means you can't work legally in Korea until when your contract would have expired. It pays to be careful and get something good. Its HARD to find people who're willing to teach straight kindy and bosses generally prefer couples so you've got some bargaining power.

This is a great job to do for a couple years but you have to be DAMN careful to avoid being screwed over.

Have any questions about general living stuff? Educating yourself about this is a good thing, but wouldn't worry too much Korea is a pretty good country to live in.

	28-10-2003 20:39									#8
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beware of the little emperors, you might have a few.

most things are somewhat westernized, but. for food shopping, you ought to go to an lgmart, because those have set prices. you can try to go to the open air markets, those are usually a bit fresher and you can get a better deal--if you can haggle right.

oh. washing machines are also in a separate room that requires special shoes, kinda like the ones you use in the bathroom. don't drink the water from the tap. it might be clean, but it can taste pretty bad.

bring your own toothpaste. seriously. all of the brands over there i've tried use tin instead of sodium to give you your flouride, so you come away with a really nasty aftertaste.

	28-10-2003 20:40									#9
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actually, these days, there are quite a few princesses too.

	28-10-2003 21:03									#10
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bring me back a wife, those Korean chicks are hot!



at least some of them are....


and dont forget to have FUN!

	28-10-2003 21:06									#11
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They eat dogs in Korea. Don't eat dogs.

Other than that, I hope you are succesful and have good luck. You'll be back

	28-10-2003 21:08									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka They eat dogs in Korea. Don't eat dogs.

Boshin tang majiso!

	28-10-2003 21:15									#13
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quote: They eat dogs in Korea. Don't eat dogs.

my family used to eat at a Korean resturaunt that got closed down for serving dog, we were upset because it was the best oriental food in Alaska!

	28-10-2003 21:20									#14
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Well, good luck mate, see you back soon.

You surely will be missed...

Just out of interest, what are the qualifications needed for such a job? ( Yes, I do realise one should speke teh engliiiish a laitelbit decontely )

	28-10-2003 21:33									#15
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Best of luck FP, sorry to see you go

See you soon

alva,
Well, one of my former Dutch literature teachers is now teaching Dutch in Taiwan, so you don't necessarily have to speak English for such a job No idea about other qualifications though...

	28-10-2003 21:57									#16
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There's no Internet time, except when used to measure how fast the dotcom kids burn money.

	28-10-2003 22:22									#17
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quote: Originally posted by alva Well, good luck mate, see you back soon. You surely will be missed... Just out of interest, what are the qualifications needed for such a job? ( Yes, I do realise one should speke teh engliiiish a laitelbit decontely )

BA in anything
Passport from USA, Canda, UK, New Zealand, Australia or South Africa

that's it

	28-10-2003 22:26									#18
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Who's this FP guy?

Have fun!

	28-10-2003 22:37									#19
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I lived in Daegu for 15 months back in '89-'90. Relatively nice place, IIRC. If you like climbing, Opsan Mountain is very nice and overlooks Daegu. Kumosan Mountain (in Kumi, about an hour up the highway from Daegu) has a beautiful Buddhist Temple on its top.
There is also a resort island off the south coast of Korea - can't recall its name right now, but it was always highly receommended to me while I was in country. And of course theres always the DMZ for the more adventuresome.....
Anyways, good luck and have fun!


D

	28-10-2003 22:39									#20
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*waves*.

Come back soon, ASAP.

	28-10-2003 22:44									#21
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quote: There is also a resort island off the south coast of Korea - can't recall its name right now, but it was always highly receommended to me while I was in country. And of course theres always the DMZ for the more adventuresome..... Anyways, good luck and have fun!

the resort island is cheju (jeju). it's its own province, so it's cheju-do, but it's also an island, so it's also cheju-do. wonderful nectarines.

	28-10-2003 22:46									#22
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And apparently somehow even wetter than the rest of Korea in the summer

	28-10-2003 22:57									#23
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FP:
I hope that you Leave Forever exactly like Drake Tungsten did

	28-10-2003 23:40									#24
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Dang Stoo! What an adventure! That sounds fantastic! Hurry up and leave, so you can hurry up and get back and tell us all about it!

Good luck and Godspeed, friend!

-=Vel=-

	28-10-2003 23:50									#25
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Thanks everyone.

Obviously Boshko is right about the qualifications. My degree and British passport are all I needed. If you wanted to teach at a University (more money, probably more fun, likely less chance of getting screwed) then you'd need a formal qualification in teaching english as a second language.

	28-10-2003 23:52									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko And apparently somehow even wetter than the rest of Korea in the summer

It sounds like the weather over there will remind me very much of home.

	29-10-2003 00:00									#27
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peace

JOn Miller

	29-10-2003 00:04									#28
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An interesting sidenote is that the terms of my contract specify that having a sexual relationship with another member of staff will be a sackable offence. Which is kinda funny since they'll also be employing my girlfriend.

	29-10-2003 00:15									#29
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Well, you better watch it then

	29-10-2003 00:21									#30
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oh, one thing that's different from the west...

be prepared to see everything (or virtually everything) attached to one of the big corporate names, like samsung, hyundai, lg, sk...

also, get used to everybody and their mother and second cousin-twice removed and her roommate having cellphones (hen.deu.pon).