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varwnos
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Thessalonike
Oct 2003
time: 07:31
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First of all, no i am not taking any offence, i certainly trust that you have said that without meaning anything offensive, but moreover the problem is with the person who is trying to be offensive, and never with the person who is listening to something, unless he becomes offended 
secondly: you are talking about the 1920-1922 war. It wasnt exactly a defeat, up to 1922 the greek army just advanced everywhere without meating any serius resitence, or crushing it, as in northern asia minor in 1921. In 1922 what happened was that elections took place, and to the general surprise pm Venizelos lost. That meant that now the King (i think it was Constantine) who had a vendetta against Venizelos since 1913, replaced all of the army heads with royal generals, who hadnt seen any war action since the balcan wars. This lead to very poor strategic planning, and finally the order to retreat. However the greek army never lost any battle in that war, it was all down to disastrous politics by the palace.
Ironically what caused all that was the previus king's sudden death. Rumour has it that he was bitten by a monkey (!). Pm Churchill wrote that "never before had the bite of a monkey caused 2 million people to exit from asia minor) (meaning the exodus of greeks that took place in 1922).
All this doesnt mean very much now, history keeps going forward, who knows, perhaps in another 100 years greece + turkey will be one nation The important thing isnt to have a huge country, but to have a country full of good and loving people. And that no nation can boast of sadly.
back to the scenario: what do you think of the new walls i made?
ps Thanks Gerry for your comments about the walls
Last edited by varwnos on 02-11-2003 at 19:51
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tanelorn
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of the deep blue sea
Jun 2001
time: 07:31
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My units.gif from that attempt, πατριδα!
My units come with a "T" logo, these are among my first units ever. BB are BeBro's, GB fairlines. The Napoleonic foot are by a Pat?. Most of the ships, the settle/engineer and trade units are Arne's. Those I dubbed erw are Erwan's. These came unmarked. So did some units from Carolus Invictinimmus scenario, I think. Its been so long I lost track of origins, sorry.
I didn't release it for personal reasons, but you can use them instead.
Descriptions: settler, engineer, Gen. Makrygianis, Armatoloi, late war greek tactical line infantry, Markos Mpotsaris, Petrobeis Mauromichalis?, Souliotes (crack guerilla fighters), Kleftes (guerilla fightes), Theodoros Kolokotronis, Nisiotes (Islanders), Cretans, Holy company (Philiki etairia), Karaiskakis, Askaris (turkish irregular foot, there is a better name for them, I forget- the majority of the turkish forces, a pittiful unruly armed mob), Turkalbanians- guerilla tactics (and Christian arvanites), Turkish regulars (Azabs was it?), Fairline's Janissaries (crack regular troops), Turkish late war tacticals (Nijamis, Nijami-i-Jedid), Turkish light cavalry (Gazi/Akinjis), Turkish medium cavalry (Sipahis), Turkish shock cavalry (Suvarilleri, Suvaris). Pasha Dramalis, Turkish corsairs, Egyptian regular cavalry, French line infantry, French Dragoons, English line infantry, English grenadiers, French grenadiers, several ship types, the last two are the joint holy alliance fleet at Navarino and a greek fireship (pyrpoliko- "kamicazee" boats, also used by some Greek captains in Latin America vs Imperial Spain), old brass gun, field piece and light piece- I'll have to check which pdr-, Ibrahim Pasha, Kjutahi Pasha, Omer Vryones, Turkish merchant, Greek merchant, Admiral Miaoulis, Admiral Kanaris (Nazi Von Kanaris supposedly claimed descent from ) fleet comanderess Bouboulina, pirate ship, philellines (pro-greek volunteer force from Europe and beyond), Reverant Papaflessas,??, Ypsilantis, Turkalbanian Ali Pasha, Turkish Admiral what's-his-name-again (Hursit Pasha?), fort, Ali Pasha's crack Albanian guard.
More or less...
Apolyton is playing tricks on me
 Attachment: tanelornunits1821.gif
This has been downloaded 60 time(s).
Last edited by tanelorn on 03-11-2003 at 03:39
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tanelorn
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of the deep blue sea
Jun 2001
time: 07:31
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As for 1821 quality of troops, tactics etc. I think that the decisive factor was the Greek control of the sea, that was largely uncallenged, and left the Turks to fight cut off from their power base in Asia Minor. Also important were
a) the holy company campaign in the Moldavian/Wallachian hegemonies by Ypsilantes, and Ali pasha's secessionist campaign in Epirus, that diverted the turks early in the war. Some other Pashas were not that cooperative with the High Porte early on.
b) the rugged terrain of the Greek lands that denied the use of massed cavalry, and relegated artilliery to static roles (siege and defence), and promoted hit and run guerilla tactics used by us Greeks. 400 years of endless insurrection made us experts. Setbacks came typically when ingenious military commanders staged pitched battles with a force of irregulars. So a civ terrain of Greece should be mountains, hills, forests and scrubland, to depict this reality.
c) The state of that era's turkish military, that with the exeption of Janissaries and Suvaris and some elite artillery units was a disorganised mob of thugs, each with its own agenda and relied mostly on numbers, attrition and savagery against civilians.
d) The internal clashes within the Ottoman establishment, the entrenched dysfunctional bureaucracies, conservationism, backwardness and general impotence to do anything which meant reliance on us Greeks to keep everything going, more or less.
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Palaiologos
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Constantinople, Queen of Cities
Aug 2002
time: 05:31
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I checked your units, my fellow macedonian.
My sincere opinion:
I have definetely seen better. BUT for some strange reason i think they are very fitting for the scenario.
Along with your walls they give a very 1821 feeling. Your style reminds me of Greek paintings of the era. Which is what i think you were trying to immitate.
Continue that way!
Last edited by Palaiologos on 03-11-2003 at 05:30
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varwnos
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Thessalonike
Oct 2003
time: 07:31
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sorry for the empty post, it originally contained a pic, but it was in bitmap form, so it was pretty much useless, i trie to change it, deleted it but then the edit function didnt allow me to attach a new image, so i finally tried to delete the entire post, but it seems that that isnt allowed
here is a final pick, the city walls one
ps (i dont know why the pics look blurry, its not intentional though!)
oh, and i am happy that you liked my idea Arthedain i was fascinated by it when i saw it in the Ultima online pic, and i just had to do that in my own scenario as well
ps: does anyone know how i can rename the farmland/mine/railroad terrains?
 Attachment: my_cities.jpg
This has been downloaded 60 time(s).
Last edited by varwnos on 03-11-2003 at 06:32
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02-11-2003 14:10
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