30-10-2003 23:32									#31
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT "dingbat" Boy, you sure got him with the crushing grip of irreducible reason there, Fez. How can he possibly hope to argue his way out of your logical trap?

I'd probably get in a fight with him... gah... I just utterly despise him... being only 135 pounds I don't think I would last long.

	30-10-2003 23:32									#32
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Admit it, you were disgruntled with the system before you took that job.

So.

	30-10-2003 23:37									#33
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Ok, let's reverse the question. If you were Bush how would you neutralize the Democratic opposition?

	30-10-2003 23:51									#34
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With guns.

Okay, assuming I was Bush, ' be stupid, so, I'd just continue to pretend that everything was rosy and that there were no problems and that anything said to the contrary is just partisan politics.

	30-10-2003 23:51									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Ok, let's reverse the question. If you were Bush how would you neutralize the Democratic opposition?

Same as always. By telling they are closet commies who want nothing but ruin the great American Civilization (tm), institute a socialist economy, and give the keys of power to Castro.

I'm sur Ned would vote for me

	30-10-2003 23:53									#36
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Question for the day: Which President asked for and recieved the largest tax increase in history?

Ronald Reagan?

(I'm thinking that tax reform thingy during his second term was it)

	30-10-2003 23:55									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Jules Ronald Reagan? (I'm thinking that tax reform thingy during his second term was it)

1st term, actually, the year after his big tax cut, 1983.

	30-10-2003 23:56									#38
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara This is the thing that has cost the Dum's so much support over the past decades. By taking their base for granted, more and more of their base has stopped voting or abandoned them for Greener pastures. You have to take care of your base, first and foremost. That's what the Repugs do. If your foundation is sand, you can't have a tent that's all inclusive. What pisses me off about the yellow stripers (moderates) is they ignore Repug nastiness but get all sanctimonious when the Dem's start to fight back.

all evidence is that non-voters share the ideological inclinations of voters. Nominating someone controversial increases base turn out, but also increases other party's base. No net gain.

And id say at least half of the 2000 Green voters will stay with the greens even if Dean is the Dem nominee. Hes still much farther to the right than the radical line.

	30-10-2003 23:57									#39
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat It's the economy, stupid.

Then the dems are dead. Most recent figures show an (annuallized) 7.2% growth rate. Phenominal, even if its s temporarily exaggerate spurt in a recovery. Jobs will be doing well by convention time, despite every effort by the dems to prolong the misery.

	31-10-2003 00:00									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Ming yeah... let's blame Bush for the collapse of the Dotcommers... HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

He did it with the secret republican time travel sabatoge, to cause it to start and proceed during Clinton's term.
Actually I blame Dot-commies, like Chegitz.

	31-10-2003 00:11									#41
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara This is the thing that has cost the Dum's so much support over the past decades. By taking their base for granted, more and more of their base has stopped voting or abandoned them for Greener pastures. You have to take care of your base, first and foremost. That's what the Repugs do. If your foundation is sand, you can't have a tent that's all inclusive.

"The Democratic base" consists of a bunch of whiners who largely don't deign to vote (which is why all sorts of people are interested in turnout numbers). "We need the government to do ______________" "The government should fix ______________" "Why doesn't the government ____________ " "Those evil corporations ________________" (Not all of us who own corporations are on the FFH and eat baby liver paté for snacks).

The tax and spend welfare, public housing, public medicine, free government funded this, that and everything else socialist-lite do-nothings are the modern Democrat base. The middle class, real working class, etc. haven't been alienated because the Dems are too far "right" - they've been alienated because the Dem leadership has been a mix of fat self-serving corrupt slobs who still believe in running the country as a self-appointed elite patronizing their "little people" (remember folks like Rostenkowski), or else a bunch of hand wringing whiners who want to raise more taxes for more government programs for everything.

quote: What pisses me off about the yellow stripers (moderates) is they ignore Repug nastiness but get all sanctimonious when the Dem's start to fight back.

Y'all can shove that yellow stripe commentary back where it came from, welfare state boy. Republican nastiness is on a whole 'nother level. Watching the Dems play fundraising and ethical games, then watching the Republicans do it, is like watching a middle school intramural basketball game with the kids who didn't get picked for any of the other teams, vs. watching the NBA championships.

	31-10-2003 00:12									#42
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Lefty: We lost 165,000 jobs during the same quarter that over all GDP growth surged. Most of the job losses were in manufactureing and tech while most jobs created were in retail or low paying services.

	31-10-2003 00:17									#43
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat "The Democratic base" consists of a bunch of whiners who largely don't deign to vote (which is why all sorts of people are interested in turnout numbers). "

again, I know of know evidence showing non-voters are different in ideological stance or partisan affiliation than voters.

	31-10-2003 00:18									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I'd probably get in a fight with him... gah... I just utterly despise him... being only 135 pounds I don't think I would last long.

You might "win". If you ever had the huevos to stand up to me face to face, honey, I'd fall down laughing so hard that I'd probably end up with a hernia. And if you stayed at least ten feet away from me the whole time, so I couldn't get a hand around your scrawny little neck, you could semi-rightly claim that it was you who put me down there. Other than that, you'd be SOL.

	31-10-2003 00:18									#45
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara 1st term, actually, the year after his big tax cut, 1983.

Ahh!

So lemme guess, he raised Social Security taxes?

	31-10-2003 00:20									#46
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I did not say there doing weel YET.

	31-10-2003 00:24									#47
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark again, I know of know evidence showing non-voters are different in ideological stance or partisan affiliation than voters.

Statistics have shown for years that registered Republicans turn out to vote with a higher percentage more consistently across the nation than to registered Democrats.

Registered Republicans are also more likely to timely renew or reregister if they move than are registered Democrats.

Both of these data are obtainable from voter registration databases.


With respect to non-registered voters, you're stuck with opinion polls, etc., so your sample size is a lot less, and margin for error a lot more, but are you going to seriously claim that Robertsonesque social conservatives, for example, are as common in the group of adults who are elegible, but don't bother registering to vote, as they are in registered voters who actually turn out every election?

	31-10-2003 01:38									#48
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quote: Watching the Dems play fundraising and ethical games, then watching the Republicans do it, is like watching a middle school intramural basketball game with the kids who didn't get picked for any of the other teams, vs. watching the NBA championships.

Uh, so who is "nastier"?

If the Repubs are bad, it's because they've trampled on by the foots of Giants (Rostenkowski, LBJ, Tip O'Neill) and have learned their 40-year long lesson while the other side grew complacent and lost their edge (and their leaders).

	31-10-2003 02:36									#49
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Or maybe it's just cuz the same people switched to the Repugs.

	31-10-2003 02:39									#50
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT quote: Watching the Dems play fundraising and ethical games, then watching the Republicans do it, is like watching a middle school intramural basketball game with the kids who didn't get picked for any of the other teams, vs. watching the NBA championships. Uh, so who is "nastier"? That would depend on what the definition of "is" is.

Do you mean "nasty" as in having the most impact, or nasty as in "crude and amateurish."

	31-10-2003 02:48									#51
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I'm just trying to figure who are the Spurs and who are the lady Fighting Tigers of Skokie (IL) Middle School in your analogy.

	31-10-2003 02:57									#52
	Re: "dingbat" - oh, I just can't bear the pain Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat You might "win". If you ever had the huevos to stand up to me face to face, honey, I'd fall down laughing so hard that I'd probably end up with a hernia. And if you stayed at least ten feet away from me the whole time, so I couldn't get a hand around your scrawny little neck, you could semi-rightly claim that it was you who put me down there. Other than that, you'd be SOL.

And you just have to rub it in...

	31-10-2003 04:17									#53
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT I'm just trying to figure who are the Spurs and who are the lady Fighting Tigers of Skokie (IL) Middle School in your analogy.

The Republicans are the Spurs, of course - they've got slick and dirty, plausibly deniable "no laws were broken" politicking down to a science that most Dems couldn't even dream of. It's like a bogus real estate development limited partnership, compared to knocking off convenience stores.

BTW, since I didn't want to rub in my ability to post in closed threads, your posts aren't normally long enough to parse.

	31-10-2003 04:38									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3227665.stm There seems to be two points which all of the Democratic candidates running for President seem to be focusing on 1) Bush lied about Iraq & isn't doing a good job supervising the occupation, and 2) He's done a poor job managing the nation's economy. I'd say both are true but #1 doesn't seem to get any traction with voters and it ends up making the Dems look whiners who have nothing positive to add. Seven of the candidates basically say they'd do the same thing which Bush is currently doing (i.e. stay the course and work towards building a democratic western leaning Iraq) with the others say we should drop everything and run. Polls show most Americas think Iraq will become an even bigger problem if the US doesn't try to finish what it started and the seven who agree with Bush aren't going to win votes by claiming to be proto-Bushes. So far the only issue which has been gaining traction is the economic issue. Unfortunately, the economy is now coming around with unexpected strength and though none of it has to do with Bush's tax cuts (since most of his tax cuts haven't even occured yet) there is no doubt Bush will get up and try to claim he's policy is what fixed the economy (instead of end of an economic cycle which most economist say is responsible for the cyclical upswing). So here's the question: If you were a candidate which issues would you highlight and who would you show that you are better and have a different vision then Bush? I really do think Bush's tax and spend policies and sky high debts are truly bad for our country but I believe the American voter is to stupid to care about such unexciting things as the national debt, bad tax policies, or over commitment of military forces. How do you get voters attention?

You know what . . . . .











I can't wait until you leave "forever."

joking

	31-10-2003 05:34									#56
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How would I neutralise the Dems?

Start with the most solidly Republican voting bloc of prolifers. Just talk about the partial birth abortion ban and leave it at that.

Che talks about a small minority, and he is right. The Republicans aren't stupid enough to alienate these voters.

As for the rest, one issue won't crystallise the voters. He would have to focus on seeing Iraq through to the end, why not with a quip from Kennedy, 'we will pay any price?' Smaller government and the tax cut.

	31-10-2003 05:36									#57
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The sad thing is if the Dems don't stop pissing in the wind and find a message which the average man actually gives a damn about then we're going to be stuck with the bubbling fuc-tard for another four years.

	31-10-2003 05:43									#58
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I've already reached that conclusion. If Dean in particular can't be silenced, and remains anything near the front-runnier, Bush could laugh his way to reelection unless there was a disaster of a scale that a stray dog could get elected in place of Bush.

	31-10-2003 05:45									#59
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Anyone think it would take a Beirut-style military fubaring for people to stand up and really take notice of the situation in Iraq?

	31-10-2003 05:50									#60
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For a short while, they would, but we have too much mass in place for a short term event to affect policy.

If we're getting into next summer, and the Pentagon is announcing which units will have second rotations to Iraq, and the One-a-day KIA thing is still happening, then Bush has some real problems. It's too early in the occupation, and too early in the election cycle, to start focusing on it.