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VetLegion
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1) do you play on the zone?
2) do you usually play with people you know?
3) how long does your average session last?
4) how long does your average game last?
5) if the game is broken, do you ever continue without that person?
6) what is the optimum number of players for you?
7) do you often expirience lag?
8) what time do you set for turn to last (max) and what (min).
9) is RT good for MP civ? (simultaneous turns in SMAC)
10) is TOAW system good? (simultaneous planning, and execute at once)
Thanks for replys.
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suas333
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Brooklyn, NY, U.S
Feb 2000
time: 05:12
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1) Yes
2) Yes - from the league, not personnally
3) about 4-6 hours
4) League games, 1 session 4-6 hours,
Dip games: 6 months 1 or 2 sessions a week
5) No
6) 4 -- but i will play with any number
7) No -- not usually from my computer
8) Unlimited -- but usually play with the timer at about 5 min, and increase
9) Beats me
10) Huh?
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carnide_
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I live here
Aug 1999
time: 05:12
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Yes, 1) do you play on the zone?
yes, 2) do you usually play with people you know?
4-6 hours, 3) how long does your average session last?
12-15 hours, 3days to weeks,4) how long does your average game last?
yes, I will try 5) if the game is broken, do you ever continue without that person?
3, no more than 4, 6) what is the optimum number of players for you?
yes, 7) do you often expirience lag?
I like it unlimited, else the host has an advantage, 8) what time do you set for turn to last (max) and what (min).
maybe... 9) is RT good for MP civ? (simultaneous turns in SMAC)
???, 10) is TOAW system good? (simultaneous planning, and execute at once)
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VetLegion
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Thanks for all replys. My expiriences are similar.
Smash, I agree civ is a thinking game. But it is a huge problem to finish a game. I have played 60 and some games (I know I usually name them "lucky game no59"  ), and I havent finished one properly. There were some surrenders, some agreed victorys, some great starts and midgames, but not once have I finished a game (1x or 2x). Everything goes well usually, but when next session has to be agreed, things fall apart.
I have played some SMAC in LAN and it was very real-timish, but not all that bad. Anoying at first, but latter I gave up thorough thinking and played just for the game.
I usually set time 3 minutes in my MP games, and possibly extend it later in game, if it is a good one. If a player needs all of his 3 minutes for the begining turns, it is not usually very promising
And the lag is particulary of interest to me. Civ has relatively small amounts of data to transfer around (compared to RT games) and it still lags alot (in my games at least)
What do those computers do when I play MP? exchange hard disc data? MP3s?
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Ming
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1) do you play on the zone?
No... I like to play without people dropping out because they are losing.
2) do you usually play with people you know?
Yes... sometimes we need a sub or one more player, and I'm open minded to have somebody I don't know join in. This gives us a chance to "know" the person for future games. But, unless I'm desperate to play, the majority of people in the game are people I know.
3) how long does your average session last?
They usually go 4 to 6 hours
4) how long does your average game last?
Again, depends on the game. Some can end in a session or two, but most last months.
5) if the game is broken, do you ever continue without that person?
Sometimes... but we usually do everything we can to get the person back in asap.
6) what is the optimum number of players for you?
I like 4, but 3 or 5 isn't bad. Any more than that, and it just takes to long per turn, and it is almost impossible to get everybody together again to continue.
7) do you often expirience lag?
Not too often, but I have a DSL connection. If I'm not hosting, it is because the host has a faster connection than I do. (we usually let the person with the fastest connection host)
8) what time do you set for turn to last (max) and what (min).
We usually play with the "older" crowd, people with families. For that reason, we always play unlimited time. With kids running around you, something will always take you away from the game when you least expect it. Everybody always makes an effort to move as quick as possible, with city maintance and non turn related diplomacy happening between turns. Yeah, it some times takes long, but if you have kids, you really don't have a choice unless you want to have a lot of people miss their turns.
9) is RT good for MP civ? (simultaneous turns in SMAC)
I'd have to see how it works to agree. It works well now, but the time is a killer.
10) is TOAW system good? (simultaneous planning, and execute at once)
Again, I would have to see how it works in Civ before having an opinion.
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VetLegion
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Smash
I believe it is so. But if I understood civ2 multiplayer model good, it is structured so that clients communicate with the host, so host has num_players-1 connections and each player only one. If the player with the slowest connection is host, he needs to send data to all clients, which is slower then if he has to send it only to host.
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markusf
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
But if I understood civ2 multiplayer model good, it is structured so that clients communicate with the host, so host has num_players-1 connections and each player only one. If the player with the slowest connection is host, he needs to send data to all clients, which is slower then if he has to send it only to host.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
I see that you are in charge of developing multiplayer part of Openciv.
On the start of the game the Host sends all the clients the map. From that point on any changes that you make are sent to the server, and the server then relays all those changes to the other clients. (Changing city production during anyones turn sends the new status to the server). The problem with this is that if someone moves right before the host, and another player changes city production this information is discarded if the player who goes before the host presses next turn.
There is also a lot of problems with cheating. The host would need to have a class deadicated to saving "previous" values. For instance science and cash of every civ and the associated tax rates, Combat units & non combat units. This could then be used to generate graphs, for the demo graphic sections. Another good thing would be to put real passwords on civ. 128 bit RSA encyption of the map data shouldn't be that hard to do. Not sure if its still outlawed in the states. (its like 15 lines of code!)
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VetLegion
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mafkusf
I am not "In charge" of multiplayer, I am only trying to push the discussion about it, thanks for noticing.
Your assumption before, that when something is changed, all data is sent is suprising, but may be exactly what is causing the lag problems. I have no expirience in programming MP, but I played a variety of games online, and I simply cannot be convinced that it couldnt have been done better.
Yes, good Idea about saving previous values, it must be done. About encryption, I dont know how much lines of code it is, probably not much, but I think it is rather processor intensive, so I am not sure.
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markusf
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Then go 8 bit RSA, its super fast 3 seconds for a save and encypt?. Its been a while since i wrote wrote encyption app. It seems that civ is in constant contact with the server and only sends data that has been changed on the client machine. Then on the hosts turn it sends out all info and resyncs everyone. But no matter how you do it, its going to be a pain in the butt if everyone can change stuff at any time. The server will have to have a fairly complex error checking algorithm with all the data being recieved.
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14-05-2000 03:35
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