31-10-2003 07:21									#1
	Cultural victory....is there an easy way? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have recently played a game as the ottomans on regent and was shooting for a cultural victory. I was shooting for the 20,000 points in one city as 100,000 didnt seem too appealing. As time went my civ was well ahead of all others. only japan, france and america had survived my onslaught (due to the fact they were on the opposite continent.) as 1850 approached i was nearly completed with the modern age with the last three civs slogging around the mid industrial age (atomic theory, steel etc.) My capitol istanbul had produced nearly every wonder possible. I missed out on a few large wonders how ever and it was costly: sistine, oracle, and pyramids. and just due to the need to generally win all other wonders were built in other cities. (im moderate builder war monger, tilting toward builder). Working it out i had 100 turns to go before i got a culture win (i was churning out 80 culture per turn and was at 12000) So my question is, if you produce nearly every wonder in one city and that city has all other cultural improvements in it, is there any way to get a quicker cultural win?

	31-10-2003 08:20									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Getting the 100,000 is much easier. Babylonians are the best civ for it. You need a decently large empire, and need to hit about half the wonders. This is easier on big maps. The most important part is getting a bunch of temples and libraries very quickly in about 10 cities. If this is achieved quick enough you can get 200 culture per turn, by about 500-700 AD, just from these. You have around 400 turns left, and 200 * 400 = 80,000, so the only other real challenge is preventing the AI from getting 50K culture I have only gotten a cultural victory once, but I have seen the AI Indians do it once on emperor.

	31-10-2003 16:21									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

wow thanks a lot.... but there seems to be a problem, i just dont see how one could play with a non industrious civ...it would be so weird....

	31-10-2003 22:11									#4
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quote: Originally posted by grappleman wow thanks a lot.... but there seems to be a problem, i just dont see how one could play with a non industrious civ...it would be so weird....

Build more workers. You may as well get use to it as they are going to reduce industious workers rate in C3C.

	01-11-2003 01:29									#5
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Build more workers. You may as well get use to it as they are going to reduce industious workers rate in C3C.

Are you serious? By how much?

	01-11-2003 01:53									#6
	Put an end to popups!

i know, my guess is that the worker rate will be reduced to 150% efficiency. im actually happy about this because it will break my addiction to industrious civs

	01-11-2003 07:53									#7
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quote: Originally posted by grappleman wow thanks a lot.... but there seems to be a problem, i just dont see how one could play with a non industrious civ...it would be so weird....

I know how you feel. But seriously, try being non-industrious. You will still find that you will finish adding every improvement possible, and run out of things to do far before you get rails or the ai can even connect their cities.... If you want to be industious just be Persia, outomans or egypt.... It is easier with the Babs, but any civ can do it pretty easily.

	01-11-2003 16:03									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by grappleman i know, my guess is that the worker rate will be reduced to 150% efficiency.

You are correct.

Before Conquests:
2 Industrious workers work to the same speed as 4 non-industrious workers

After Conquests:
2 Industrious workers work to the same speed as 3 non-industrious workers

	06-11-2003 07:52									#9
	One Cultural City Challenge Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I think the point of the original post was how to get a cultural win with a single city at 20,000 culture. My very first win in CivIII was entirely by accident. I was playing the Babs, and had a lot of luck in expanding my empire at the expense of the neighbors. By virtue of building everything I could in every city on a Huge map, the culture points accrued and I was facing a win screen totally without expecting it.

I've had two games that were very close to 20K, but were won diplomatically and via the 100K national culture before the Culture City could accrue enough points. Nevertheless I learned enough from these two games to work out a viable strategy for a Culture City to hit 20K before the year 2000.

Culture City (CC) - The Concept

Back in CivII the perceived wisdom to victory was either or both a Science City and Production City. The Science City would build all the science wonders, the Collosus, and Shakespeare's, and the production city would build Sir Richards. The Science City concept still holds in CivIII, especially now that the SETI program only gives a benefit to one city and not all of them. By extension I've been working on how to apply the concept to a city totally devoted to Culture points.

There are two absolutely critical points to follow: 1) Build early, and 2) Build Wonders with the most culture points. I'll take 2) first:

2) Minor and Major Wonders vary in culture generation from a single point (mostly the militaristic wonders) to 8 (!) for Shakespeare's Theater. Good is 4 points, great is 6 points. Unless you are extremely blessed with Great Leaders, only build the wonders with a better cultural value.

1) After a culture generating structure is 1,000 years old, it generates double culture. Although it may seem that building something at 3,000BC should generate tons of culture, the years between turns is so great that the cultural accumulation isn't all that special. Decent accumulation is between 0AD and 1850AD, and great accumulation is between 1850AD and 2000AD. If you haven't won by 2000 then likely the AI will unless you go through extraordinary defensive maneuvers.

So to combine the two points, you have to build structures with the most culture points as early as possible. You also have to consider which wonders the AI will prefer when deciding what to build. Pre-building is almost mandatory unless again you have an abundance of GLs. I made over 14K culture points with an Iroquois city before seeing a GL in the early Modern Age.

Here is my recipe:

Ancient Age:
Temple, Library, (Colloseum)
Industrious Civs:
The Colossus or The Oracle
The Great Library
Non-Industrious Civs:
The Great Library, The Hanging Gardens

Medieval Age:
Cathedral, University, (Colloseum)
JS Bach's or Sistine Chapel
Shakespeare's Theater before 900AD
Add Copernicus, Newtons, or the other church wonder if Shakespeare's will be built after 900AD.
Industrial Age
Theory of Evolution or Universal Sufferage is nice to have, but not necessary.

Modern Age
Research Lab
(If you don't have a good cultural base by 1700, it's too late to catch up)
When (If) Available
Heroic Epic

The issue with Shakespeare's Theater can be critical, as it counts for 8 points from the start and 16 (!) when it becomes ancient. If completed before 900AD, it will generate double culture points for every year in the twentieth century, where it will count the most. After 2000AD, you'll probably win or lose the game through other means. If you can't build the Theater before 900AD, it's better to supplement the loss through another 4-6 point structure. Free Artistry can be had early enough if you start the Medieval before 0AD and you're shrewd in tech generation or trading.

Following this or a similar recipe, you should be generating 45-50 culture points by 1500AD - 1700AD, and 80-90+ culture points by 1850AD. At this rate you can accumulate 20K points by the early-middle twentieth century.

As a side note, there is a big temptation to make the Culture City also serve as a Science City. Resist the urge. The science wonders don't generate as many culture points as the happiness wonders.

I have only tried this strategy on Monarch. I doubt it would work on Emperor, as the production advantage for the AI makes it very difficult to build wonders in the Ancient and Medieval ages, where it matters to the CC the most.

Scott

	06-11-2003 08:06									#10
	I left his out... Enter the AD-FREE zone

A couple of other strategems apply to the Culture City.

Don't worry about a granary or the Pyramids. Add workers to the city's population to the limit of your happiness (or aqueduct/hospital cap).

Irrigate only enough to keep your population fed. Mine all the remaining tiles. You'll need every shield you can get for rapid construction.

Don't build Barracks or the Military Academy in the CC. You can't afford the distraction. Likewise structures like the Courthouse and Police Station are unnecessary.

Don't build the CC in your Capital. You'll need the Palace and possibly the Forbidden Palace to prebuild target wonders.

Try to keep at least one unbuilt small wonder in reserve for prebuilding, as it affords greater flexibility in conserving accumulated production.

If it turns out you are lucky enough for the CC to qualify for Iron Works, build it, but only after Universal Sufferage or Theory of Evolution are built. It will come online well before the Research Lab.

Scott