31-10-2003 14:40									#1
	What's wrong with the CIA???? Enter the AD-FREE zone

I made a thread about them shooting down one of our promising new high tech companies in the 80s, only resulting Russians getting the technology eventually and plan backfiring that did us lots of damage.

Now they claim, that we recruit underaged children to our army. Anyone who lives in let's say here, Sweden etc... what you think? You believe this?

There are NO underaged recruits in our army, the minimum age is 18. You can not enter at the age of 17 even if you turn 18 soon. You'll be coming the next year then. What is the crap??? They also claim, that our strength is too much, and that we don't need so many men. Our current manpower is 490 000. We cut it down, because it's really no use to have 50 year old beer bellied men to be on the frontlines. But so what? What is it of CIAs business to critisize it? We are friends, they shouldn't care about it. Our lands are wide and people are not many, and we need plan on protecting every inch of it. Is CIA trying to say, we don't have a right to it, or wtf is the problem?

I figure this is one of those miscalculations and misunderstandings, but I'm really wondering who the professional is who is responsible for keeping an eye on us. Those people are clearly unprofessional IMO.

They say we recruit people under 18. Well excuse me, but that's BS. And we are conscript army, so it's not like there are people trying to volunteer for the money, or to go to war. BS.

They also claim that our man is over 1 million man, meaning 1 million able man. So? And it's 490 000 in reality, we cut it down some time ago. All they'd have to do is to read the reports the army sends out, or read the papers, I really don't understand what is so difficult.

CIA refuses to answer to queries why they put out wrong information about us. What's next?

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	31-10-2003 14:50									#2
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What's my problem with this? Well, let me tell you.

This information is public, not secret. Everyone knows it. You can just walk down the street and ask someone and you prolly get the right answer. Their information is simply wrong. You spend whole lots of money to keep this thing working, but it seems like they are unable to discover the simplest things, at least when it comes to us and our military. Someone is doing a sloppy job. Besides claiming we are recruiting underaged kids is stupid, and outrageous. It's not true. So, how can you trust this agency, if it has so much difficulties of using the copy-paste and getting their information correct?

	31-10-2003 14:54									#3
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Now how can there be any thing wrong with the CIA...?

I am shocked to here such details of this organisation.

I always found Charlies Icecream Arcades a great place to take the children on a hot afternoon after the beach.

	31-10-2003 14:56									#4
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Sure they make mistakes, but this one wouldn't be so hard to get right. Frankly, it's difficult to get it wrong... They're just pulling these figures out of their asses, and heading for cup of coffee. I guess working is not number one priority to someone responsible for this. It's easy info, it's public and with these, there are no big secrets.

	31-10-2003 19:08									#5
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What are talking about?

	31-10-2003 19:17									#6
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American intelligence is inept... 9-11, nuff said.

	01-11-2003 09:14									#7
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Are you sure you've got the latest version of the CIA Wolrd Factbook?

	01-11-2003 09:37									#8
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If you're referring to the CIA World Factbook for this information, I think you're confusing available manpower with number of active duty soldiers. Available manpower is simply the number of adult males fit for service.

	01-11-2003 09:48									#9
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Hmm....The US army, if given permission from parents, allows 17-year-olds into the Army....

	01-11-2003 09:52									#10
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quote: Hmm....The US army, if given permission from parents, allows 17-year-olds into the Army

Normally, however, they are enlisted in DEP and don't ship until 18 or very close to it. You would also have to have graduated high school or obtained a GED.

	01-11-2003 10:08									#11
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What it really comes down to, Pekka, is this:

We're on to you. You're plans for world domination have been betrayed. The CIA has the details, and evil Finland is finally going to get what it deserves...

	01-11-2003 10:15									#12
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That is probably one of Pekka's last posts.

	01-11-2003 11:26									#13
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What have I done now?
Oh wait....

	01-11-2003 11:31									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Sava American intelligence is inept... 9-11, nuff said.

What about it? There's no need to blame things on the CIA that can be explained by being blamed on Bush.

	01-11-2003 16:11									#15
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No it's not a question of active duty soldiers and war time .. it clearly said crisis time. So that's one big mistake.

Also, we don't not allow even 17 years old, even if they turn 18 that year, even if they volunteer. So there.

	01-11-2003 18:08									#16
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Alright. We believe you. You're safe. For now. :shiftyeyes:

	01-11-2003 18:34									#17
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This is just a casual guess, but I think whats wrong with the CIA is that we Americans aren't usually very good at espionage stuff. I think its just not something that we have a national talent for. When we try to do sneaky stuff, lots of time we just bungle it. We end up with smooth operations like Watergate. Oops.

We should stick to things we're good at, like aviation or naval stuff. We should leave the spy stuff to people who can do it without tripping over their own feet.

Like I said, its just a feeling I have. Who knows how many things that went right that I've never heard of, because they went right.

	01-11-2003 19:06									#18
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I'd have to agree -- our counterintelligence, in particular, has always leaked like a sieve.

	01-11-2003 20:30									#19
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Pekka, could you kindly give us a link to your source, or tell us what it is?

	01-11-2003 20:31									#20
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It's on several internet magazines, and they are all in Finnish.

	01-11-2003 20:41									#21
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Do you know where they're getting their information? I'll concede that the CIA is wrong about military age, but the figures they give in the factbook hardly support what these magazines are saying.

	01-11-2003 20:44									#22
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I'm not sure if they refer to factbook.. but even if they do, in any case, they should have it right. The error is as horrible as writing someones country name wrong. By this I mean, it is as easy to get it right, and difficult to get wrong, if you are professional and do what your job is. I'll check out the articles again..

And I'm not really trying to bash the US here. Or the CIA in general. Just the dudes who are in responsible of our country. They really do suck at their work. Claiming, that we recruit underaged kids into our military is accusation, and a serious one. I'd suppose if you write that down and think about it, you'd double and triple check it from various of sources before making that accusation. But I guess it was too much of a job.

	01-11-2003 20:56									#23
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Reading it through again, it refers to factbook. But from this year, so it's supposed to be new. They also say, that they didn't answer any queries that wanted to know why they don't correct the information.

So 'factbook' my ass.

	01-11-2003 21:00									#24
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I would imagine that their best people are probably occupied somewhere else. I would also imagine that no one really puts to much effort in analyzing troop strength of friendly countries in non-conflict areas. I would hope that their time is better spent trying to figure out what is happening with the trouble areas of the world. As an American...Sorry for the error, but does it really matter?

	01-11-2003 21:11									#25
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Yes I'm sure the best people are doing something else. And yes I'm sure, that even the people who are responsible for this are also better than this, but they clearly didn't put the effort.. OR their resources are really bad. But I think it is reasonable to demand, not me, but you, you can demand that they get these things right!
The error is same as printing out maps and put the cities in wrong places.
Our defense department puts out official reports, you know them if you just read them. Where do you get facts, when you figure this out? YOu read the reports, right? Besides, they can ask these and this information will be given, it's no secret. It's like saying we have professional army, when in reality it's conscript.

Also, I'd like to point out, that we don't recruit. It's conscript. You can't enter if you want to. You are conscripted. You are conscripted when you are of certain age. And then you go through this board, they interview you and get more information and where you'd like to serve and where your skills are seen as needed, or your potential is decided. You get this notification automatically 'be here then and then' and it is all based on age. So, when you enter, you have to be at least 18, there is no other options. You can volunteer, no matter you're not getting in. No matter if you parents say it's ok, you just can't get in. It's that simple. So I don't know where this info is coming from. Some times ago, we had a system where you could volunteer earlier, at the age of 17 if you turn 18 when you serve, and you had to have parents OK. But now it's not even that. You need to be over 18 to enter the first day. Simple. No room for misunderstandings. And to claim otherwise is just stupid.
THat's my beef. How CAN they get this wrong? I mean they don't let stupid people in the CIA, and the people who did this are most likely not stupid. So how did this happen?

And to me it matters. Sure we are insignificant country to many, and majority don't even know we exist. But when there's some info about us and it's incorrect, I tend to notice it. The mistake is not HORRIBLE, but it's an easy mistake.... so that's why it bothers me.

	01-11-2003 21:16									#26
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I think you are right to be bothered. Chances are that someone simply didn't update an old report as resources were allocated elsewhere. Unfortunately, old reports tend to hang around at CIA in lieu of any current work being done. Someone is probably assigned to regular updates and they may have been pulled to other activity. I can say with virtual certainty that no one meant to offend your country.

	01-11-2003 21:21									#27
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plato, I know that . Sure it has to be honest mistake. And mistakes do happen.

It's just that.. you know.. it bothers when big and famous things get you wrong.. you know? It's like if you were here and watched the news and saw your map and there was mexico included to you and capital was named 'Voshington' and it was located where NY is? I know that would bother you . You might find it amusing at first, but if you knew, that there are millions of people who can see this, and they would actually believe it is true.. that would bother you. You know? It's ok, I just think they should be more careful even with us little ones who are friendlies.. because it's good manners to pay little attention. This makes me feel like no one cares .