01-11-2003 00:49									#31
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for vesayen

"This is time to arouse the remembrance of Hashem's love for Israel, which is an unconditional love. "Either way [whether they are good or sinful], they are still called sons." They are chosen, and this is a fact that transcends reason or logic. "Even in spite of this, when they were in the land of their enemies, I did not despise them or abhor them to break My covenant with them." The covenant is everlasting because the bond of the Jewish soul to its Creator is firm and does not suffer any change, whatsoever, even if mountains of sin pile up on it. "Many waters cannot douse the love and rivers cannot wash it away"

	01-11-2003 00:54									#32
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something else for Vesayen

"ADOSHEM ADOSHEM GOD, GOD

Adoshem, Adoshem (Adonai Adonai),

El rachum v'chanun,

Erech apayim v'rav chessed ve-emet;

Notser chessed la-alafim,

Nosey avon vafesha v'chata'ah v'nakeh.




God, God is gracious and compassionate,

Patient and abounding in kindness and faithfulness,

Assuring love for a thousand generations,

Forgiving iniquity, transgression and sin,
And granting pardon"

	01-11-2003 01:06									#33
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Vesayen: You should come to Israel, you really should.

	01-11-2003 01:47									#34
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Why? Israel is the most dangerous place in the world to be a Jew.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031103&s=lazare

	01-11-2003 01:53									#35
	Remove this text

God hates homosexuals like you. Just ask Jerry Falwell he'll tell you so.

	01-11-2003 02:22									#36
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good shabbos.

	01-11-2003 03:01									#37
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Without reading everything....
I highly doubt God hates you The god *I* believe in doesn't judge a person based on whether they can do pointless rituals every day.

	01-11-2003 03:19									#38
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God doesn't care whether you perform rituals or not. It's what's in your heart that matters. Religious rituals are not from God, they're from man.

	01-11-2003 03:59									#39
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hi ,


Ves , the answer is in your sidur if you have one , ......

if not , send an email and ask a Rabbi


Shabath Shalom

	01-11-2003 04:20									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia God doesn't care whether you perform rituals or not. It's what's in your heart that matters. Religious rituals are not from God, they're from man.

	01-11-2003 04:21									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia God doesn't care whether you perform rituals or not. It's what's in your heart that matters. Religious rituals are not from God, they're from man.

God is from man too.

	01-11-2003 04:26									#42
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara God is from man too.

Wow, you must know everything!. Thanks for teaching me the nature of the universe!

	01-11-2003 04:27									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Wow, you must know everything!.

I do.

	01-11-2003 04:28									#44
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I do.

Ok, what's my mother's maiden name?

	01-11-2003 04:35									#45
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Irrelevent.

	01-11-2003 04:36									#46
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara God is from man too.

Nope.

	01-11-2003 04:38									#47
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Wrong!

What is your whanau?

	01-11-2003 04:59									#48
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The sooner you realise god doesn't exist, the sooner your conscience will release you from all this unecessary guilt you're suffering and the happier you'll be...

	01-11-2003 05:04									#49
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Yay! Now I can stop being nice to people!

	01-11-2003 05:16									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Yay! Now I can stop being nice to people!

Only if you don't mind them treating you in the same manner.

You don't have to be religious to have a social conscience...

	01-11-2003 05:57									#51
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quote: You are WRESTLING with what you beleive and how you want to live.

This seems the most accurate assessment of what you are going through. Remember that I come from a Protestant background, where the most important thing is to have faith in God. Rituals can be good if they are done to glorify God, but not if they become done for their own sake or from peer pressure.

Vesayen, God always loves you, he will never leave you, although he will test people to know where their hearts lie. That's what's going on right now, living away from home you ask yourself why have I been doing these rituals?

Are you still satisfied with Judaism?

	01-11-2003 06:24									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Are you still satisfied with Judaism?

Nice approach Ben

I shall remember it when I'll go on converting spree myself

	01-11-2003 06:26									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I shall remember it when I'll go on converting spree myself

Now this is something I'll never understand - how can a person convert from one belief to another!!?

It just doesn't make any logical sense when taken in the overall context of religion...

	01-11-2003 06:41									#54
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Of course God loves you. He doesn't hate you at all. It's just that He, well.......He doesn't know what to do with you, so when you're done He'll probably just have to dispose of you. Sorry, but it's nothing personal. It's just that He wouldn't want to disappoint you, you being a non-believer and all that. If it helps, He hopes there won't be any hard feelings afterwards.

	02-11-2003 13:11									#55
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quote: how can a person convert from one belief to another!!? It just doesn't make any logical sense when taken in the overall context of religion...

Why not, mobius? What is so illogical about conversion?

	02-11-2003 22:00									#56
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"Does God hate me because I've been ignoring his commandments? "
More likely he holds you in contempt because you are a loser.

Last edited by Lefty Scaevola on 02-11-2003 at 22:17

	02-11-2003 23:20									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Why not, mobius? What is so illogical about conversion?

Because you've spent your entire life believing one religion exclusively of all others, suddenly to believe in another...

I don't think so...

What proof do you have that religion #2 is better, or ever exists. Why didn't you believe in it before...?

Those are some really basic questions - frankly unless you can give me good, concise and reasoned answers to those, it is not worth my time getting into this sort of argument...

	02-11-2003 23:59									#58
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quote: Because you've spent your entire life believing one religion exclusively of all others, suddenly to believe in another...

Is that any different than switching political parties? You spent your entire life working for one party and then suddenly start to work and believe in another?