01-11-2003 11:52									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger It seems that the feeling is mutual. Their attacks on you were low, but not unprovoked.

What provoked the attacks?

Look at the threads, I wasn't flaming anyone, and I got flamed in response. They're still there you know, they're locked and not deleted.

	01-11-2003 11:55									#32
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Oh, Agathon, and Drake were jerks as well, for sure. I don't condone personal attacks like that, especially on parties that have nothing to do with the argument. But I wasn't around for those, and I didn't see them happen, so I can't really comment on them with authority.

"since Mac users don't like me to begin with"
Gee, I wonder why. We use the mac-forum as a place to discuss our passion, and you repeatedly come around for another brawl. You never give up, you never stop wanting to retread this old ground. To be frank, us mac-users don't WANT to go through all of that old shît again. We just wanted to use that forum to post news about the computer, and stuff like that.

In any case, it's halloween, and all of the participants in the so called drama were indoors arguing about computers instead of out partying, so they're all lame. That's where I was during all of it. And I'm glad for it. This whole situation is just stupid. A crude word, but the only one.

	01-11-2003 11:59									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Asher They seem to have thought the Mac forum was their own little "Club Forum" where they could escape the reality that opposing viewpoints bring.

Sure. But isn't it true that you willingly sabotage any mac-thread you encounter? More than opposing viewpoints, I think it has to do with deliberate trolling. Look at Qcubed's behaviour in MacThreads: he is far from being pro-Mac, yet his points are sound and he somehow gets listened by the pro-Mac people.

	01-11-2003 11:59									#34
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Gee, I wonder why. We use the mac-forum as a place to discuss our passion, and you repeatedly come around for another brawl.

Why is it that Mac users treat dissenting opinions as someone trying to pick a fight?

Hello -- welcome to the real world. Not everyone shares the same opinion, other people will disagree. Instead of flaming them and telling them to "piss off" like Agathon did, perhaps you all should grow up and learn how to respond with an argument rather than a flame.

It's not that difficult. Why you guys have trouble with it, I have no idea.

quote: In any case, it's halloween, and all of the participants in the so called drama were indoors arguing about computers instead of out partying, so they're all lame.

I think my BF would be mad if I went out partying after I dropped him off at home.

quote: That's where I was during all of it.

Hey, good on you! I'm proud.

	01-11-2003 12:02									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Sure. But isn't it true that you willingly sabotage any mac-thread you encounter? More than opposing viewpoints, I think it has to do with deliberate trolling. Look at Qcubed's behaviour in MacThreads: he is far from being pro-Mac, yet his points are sound and he somehow gets listened by the pro-Mac people.

That's because QCubed is more passive than I am.

Like regarding the ridiculous claim that AAC is an "Open Standard" -- it clearly is not, by the very definition of "Open Standard". Q Cubed was willing to agree to disagree, and I was not. It's like agreeing to disagree that the United States is on Mars and not Earth. It's just simply ridiculous, and the person who claims as such ought to admit they're wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence and move on.

BTW, which points of mine aren't sound?

They don't like me posting in Mac threads because I have too many sound points. Mostly of things they don't want to hear. Why ruin their Godlike image of Steve Jobs?

	01-11-2003 12:03									#36
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quote: It is true that Asher trolls these threads systematically, and as such it is impossible for mac users to have a reasonable discussion about their favorite system with such noise.

It's called free speech, they have to deal with it . Sorry that they can't have a 'we love Mac' thread, but others have a right to respond. The fact that they turned tail and ran to a Civ-Mac forum because they couldn't beat Asher's arguments shows how pathetic they really are, IMO.

quote: But the anti-Bush don't manage to entirely prevent a serious discussion about Bush policies

a. I think some pro-Bush people may disagree here (in fact I know more than a few who would).

b. If it wasn't for Asher in those Mac threads there would be no 'discussion'. More like 'OMG, Apple rox!' crap.

	01-11-2003 12:11									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Asher BTW, which points of mine aren't sound?

(unrelated) Wow, < em > tags, now that's geeky

The fact is that you enjoy comparing whatever MS does (better) to Macintosh. Such a behaviour is all right in a thread that has been strated to compare Macs and PCs, but the problem with you is that you turn any thread into a Mac / PC comparison, and you use rhetorical tricks very efficiently to piss off your opponents.

quote: What rhetorical tricks? the truth?

A selective truth, sure, but mostly a writing style that is highly annoying, that is "I'm so right and you're so wrong hahaha"

Just look at the way you gloated about your victory on CG. Even TCO who agrees with you on the Mac issue thought you were a weasel. That's the style, not the contents.

	01-11-2003 12:15									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui b. If it wasn't for Asher in those Mac threads there would be no 'discussion'. More like 'OMG, Apple rox!' crap.

I don't think so. While they wouldn't be as flamtastic as with Asher, there are a few PC geeks who can have a serious discussion about Macs, that is not aimed at pure trolling. And there are even Mac users who can have a critical viewpoint on their favorite system (FlameFlash doesn't seem to say "Mac rocks" at every occasion, for example)

	01-11-2003 12:16									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor (unrelated) Wow, < em > tags, now that's geeky

Old habits die hard.

quote: The fact is that you enjoy comparing whatever MS does (better) to Macintosh. Such a behaviour is all right in a thread that has been strated to compare Macs and PCs, but the problem with you is that you turn any thread into a Mac / PC comparison, and you use rhetorical tricks very efficiently to piss off your opponents.

A Mac is an alternative to a PC. If a thread is all about gloating about how great something on the Mac is (see the G5 threads, see the iTunes threads, etc.) a comparison to the PC is both required and reasonable for a real discussion.

quote: A selective truth, sure, but mostly a writing style that is highly annoying, that is "I'm so right and you're so wrong hahaha"

The thing that is highly annoying is that I usually am so right, and they either know it or don't possess the ability to reply to it. So it's frustrating for them.

The solution? Flee to the havens of a circle-jerk forum where people who have something negative to say are told to "piss off".

quote: Even TCO who agrees with you on the Mac issue thought you were a weasel. That's the style, not the contents.

That's because TCO is a bit sore since he's been ratted out himself quite a few times.

	01-11-2003 12:17									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor (FlameFlash doesn't seem to say "Mac rocks" at every occasion, for example)

Look at his signature.

	01-11-2003 12:19									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The thing that is highly annoying is that I usually am so right, and they either know it or don't possess the ability to reply to it. So it's frustrating for them.

The gloating and the implied insults on their intellects sure has nothing to do with it

(read the sentence I quoted)

	01-11-2003 12:21									#42
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"The fact that they turned tail and ran to a Civ-Mac forum because they couldn't beat Asher's arguments shows how pathetic they really are, IMO."

The forum has been used as a discussion of the mac for years before these stupid, stupid arguments were around.

For me, the whole issue is played out; I'm sick of hearing it. It's like watching ping-pong: interesting for a little while, but it gets tired quick. I've personally settled on the stance of never going out on the warpath on a computer operating system debate ever again. It's just no fun and a waste of time.

	01-11-2003 12:24									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor The gloating and the implied insults on their intellects sure has nothing to do with it (read the sentence I quoted)

It's only an insult if it's true, remember.

That's the beauty of that sentence.

If they don't know, it's not an insult on their intelligence but their knowledge of computers (which isn't really an insult -- not everyone should know a lot about computers).

	01-11-2003 12:32									#44
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True.

For example, if I knew a lot about computers....
But I just don't have the time anymore

	01-11-2003 12:35									#45
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quote: I don't think so. While they wouldn't be as flamtastic as with Asher, there are a few PC geeks who can have a serious discussion about Macs, that is not aimed at pure trolling.

In the end the Macheads treat that as trolling as well. It isn't just Asher that try to take the Macheads to task, he just is willing to stand in there and continue posting.

	01-11-2003 12:43									#46
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Spiffor, you're still missing one piece of the story.

This is an appendix to the story:
http://www.counterglow.com/forum/sh...&threadid=16163

	01-11-2003 12:45									#47
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"In the end the Macheads treat that as trolling as well."

This is just a flat out lie.

	01-11-2003 12:51									#48
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Whinefest, dramafest, whodonewhattowhofest, whatever you want to call it, is over.

Any further comments? Look at my location field.