11-11-2003 10:20									#61
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Pack lose

	11-11-2003 10:27									#62
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donovan mcnabb sucks the fatty

that is all

	11-11-2003 11:31									#63
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That was a lame game.

Also, the Cowboys WILL die next week, when they finally come up against a REAL team.

	11-11-2003 12:07									#64
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dp

	11-11-2003 12:08									#65
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I hate the Bills. They lost 4 Super Bowls in a row last decade, when AFC sucked. They didn't even deserve to be there. I mean, it's like the AFC said "Is anybody going to the Super Bowl this year? Anybody??? Oh, alright, send the Bills". I think they are overrated and always have been.

	11-11-2003 19:39									#66
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I was gonna post a new thread about this cause it brings up good points about the last 2 or 3 seasons. It was in today's Detroit Free Press

quote: DREW SHARP: Parity is short for boredom NFL's meaning has become No Fun League November 11, 2003 BY DREW SHARP FREE PRESS COLUMNIST The procession of Stepford fans, hypnotically walking in tight formation with blank expressions, left NFL stadiums the same as every other Sunday, rhythmically repeating what has practically become league scripture. "I love this team. I love this game. I love this league. I love this blindfold." If they actually saw what they were watching, perhaps their loyalty wouldn't be so unyielding. It doesn't matter if the game they just experienced was no different from the one they caught in person two weeks ago or the three they saw on television last week. It doesn't matter that they can't even remember the final score. Nor does it matter that excellence is now measured in weeks rather than years. Or that there are no more heroes or villains, just faceless names in stylish attire used to bolster the league's merchandising wing. What matters most is strict adherence to the company line -- the NFL is the unchallenged king of our national sports conscience. Nonconformity is frowned upon in the NFL, and that attitude is sapping the life from what was once a vibrant sport. The NFL is overprogrammed, overmarketed and overregulated, stripped bare of the spontaneity and individuality essential for establishing a league's personality. Commissioner Paul Tagliabue and the players association have conspired to accomplish the previously unthinkable: They've turned the NFL regular season into a replica of major league baseball. In the first three-quarters of the schedule, the games are indistinguishable and can be largely ignored. It remains in the league's best interests to keep corporate sponsors and fans brainwashed into thinking that not a single moment can be missed. But salary cap-manipulated parity has cheapened the long-held argument that "every game counts." The NFL has funneled all of its variables into a system that consistently spits out more than 20 teams that remain in playoff contention come December. So exactly how does that heighten the importance of games in September and October? Initially, I assumed that this malady was an advanced case of acute retinal Lionitis, an inflammation of the eyes from overexposure to putrid football. But trying to watch assorted games during the Lions' recent bye week only confirmed that most of the league is closer to the Lions' depths than to the Kansas City Chiefs' heights. Fortunately, there was a decent movie on cable. Unless you're a gambler or fantasy statistics geek, there is no compelling motivation to sit through more than three hours of mediocrity when tuning in the final two minutes is all that's required. And isn't that the primary complaint about the NBA? Can anyone think of three truly compelling games in the NFL this season? How about two? When Buffalo and Dallas combined for three points in the second half of their game Sunday, that was bad football. A combined 11 turnovers by Baltimore and St. Louis was bad football. The Lions and Chicago Bears on the same field was bad football. And since when is bad football good for fans? It is when the NFL suits on Park Avenue tell them it is. The NFL needs to soften the salary cap, providing two or three exemptions to improve depth on team rosters, which the current cap and inevitable injuries decimate. Equity creates a false sense of achievement, but the league doesn't care. It's perfectly content with perfectly sculpted, easily interchangeable athletes instead of colorful, instinctive football players who don't necessarily fit a mold, like 41-year-old survivor Doug Flutie. The only true drama comes when a few teams appear dominant, creating a natural course of emotions. How can you have an underdog unless there's a Goliath? It doesn't matter that nobody can shoot the ball in the NBA. At least the Lakers are still atop the mountain, offering a sizable target. What's so enthralling about watching a special NFL team enjoy a special season only to watch it spontaneously combust the next season because of the league's system? Both of last year's Super Bowl teams -- Tampa Bay and Oakland -- have losing records. If the Buccaneers and Raiders miss the playoffs, it would mark the third time in five years that both Super Bowl participants failed to qualify. It happened only once in the previous 32 years. The NFL preaches competitiveness and balance. But the game is really boring.

I think this brings up some good points, especially the need for loosening the salary cap and more exemptions. Teams like the Lions and Bears, who used to be at least mediocre, are now stuck in a spiral of suckiness because they can't sign draft picks and attract top-notch free agents due to of cap restrictions.

Also very telling is the inability of Super Bowl teams to get back in again. Maybe parity works a little too well.

	11-11-2003 20:17									#67
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Ridiculous. Football is still exciting. That patriots/denver game was as fun as a superbowl.

	11-11-2003 20:40									#68
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quote: Are You Ready for Some Football - Week 9

no I'm not. plz give me some time to prepare myself

	12-11-2003 00:36									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay I was gonna post a new thread about this cause it brings up good points about the last 2 or 3 seasons. It was in today's Detroit Free Press I think this brings up some good points, especially the need for loosening the salary cap and more exemptions. Teams like the Lions and Bears, who used to be at least mediocre, are now stuck in a spiral of suckiness because they can't sign draft picks and attract top-notch free agents due to of cap restrictions. Also very telling is the inability of Super Bowl teams to get back in again. Maybe parity works a little too well.

bullshit.

Football has so many good, close games. This is evident by the record number of overtime games the last few years (and attempts to change overtime rules). What does this guy want? Blowouts every other game?

Close games show each team fighting tooth and nail attempting to make the playoffs. What more could you ask for?

I do kind of miss the days of the dominant teams of old. Even as recently as the Cowboys and even the Bills of the 90's.

But there is no reason teams like that can't still be dominant. It's just the players are greedy and have no team loyalty. They are willing to jump ship for higher wages. No one wants to take any pay cuts. Look at the lakers in NBA basketball. They keep their budget down because they got some superstars willing to take a pay cut to win a ring. There's no reason that can't happen in the NFL.

And look at Tampa Bay. They are essentually the same team they were last year. They lost one defensive player to Arizona that I know of. On paper they should still be a dominant team. You can't say the salary cap prevented them from being a superbowl contender 2 years in a role. They just got cocky and maybe Gruden isn't the coach we thought he was.

Also I think some players elevate their play when they "feel" like they got a legitimate shot at winning the superbowl. The best example of this is the Raiders of last year. Their coach wasn't great, yet they still got to the superbowl. Their running game was suspect, and they passed far too much. But they still got to the superbowl by outsanding play by their QB and receivers. That just doesn't work this year, because they don't believe anymore.


This is why you don't have dominant teams.

	12-11-2003 00:58									#70
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quote: Football has so many good, close games. This is evident by the record number of overtime games the last few years (and attempts to change overtime rules). What does this guy want? Blowouts every other game?

I don't think he's saying that all. He's saying that most of the games have been subpar to mediocre because teams can't really "build up" because of the rather draconian restrictions. Or they are complete blowouts, of which there have plenty of both this season.

Think about the old teams in the 70's/80's like San Fran and Pittsburgh that were well-rounded at all positions and both sides of the ball. Like I said before, even a mediocre team like early 90's Lions could draft good players and go out and get good free agents.

Another thing is rivalries. There's not really rivalries like there were because teams change so much, and their relative strengths vary so much from year to year. Like the article said, how can David/Goliath rivalries develop if there are neither one?

quote: But there is no reason teams like that can't still be dominant. It's just the players are greedy and have no team loyalty.

So a player that puts together a Pro Bowl year, and wants a raise or restructuring, is greedy? Im sure a lot of crappy teams want to retain good players like that (especially the Lions), and have the money to spend (like the Lions do) but they can't .

quote: Look at the lakers in NBA basketball. They keep their budget down because they got some superstars willing to take a pay cut to win a ring. There's no reason that can't happen in the NFL.

The salary cap structure in the NBA is much more liberal compared to the NFL, as least as far as relative number of exemptions go. Also, Shaq is still THE dominant player in the league, so it's misleading to say they are thriving under the NBA cap system.

	12-11-2003 01:07									#71
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Kansas City Chiefs is what proves all that wrong.

They are a well rounded team. Remember last year they couldn't do anything because their defense was horrible. But they were able to successfully "build up" a team. And they have a better defense this year- still not the best, but I think it is good enough to get them to the superbowl.

And they are "very" dominant.

	12-11-2003 01:10									#72
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quote: Originally posted by reismark We won't even mention my pitiful performances in the Lombardi pool either.

We can mention my win for the week though right?



Go Slicker Pickers

	12-11-2003 01:22									#73
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about time SOMEBODY on our team did well... congrats partner

	12-11-2003 01:25									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Kansas City Chiefs is what proves all that wrong. They are a well rounded team. Remember last year they couldn't do anything because their defense was horrible.

Ok, one team, and their defense is still horrible.
And they're a team that has a notorious history of crapping out in the playoffs, so I'm not sold yet personally.

quote: And they are "very" dominant.

Yeah, this year they are. It would really suck if they win and start out 0-5 the next, proving they were just the Flavor of the Year, another interchangeable team with interchangeable parts.

	12-11-2003 01:26									#75
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Yes, Slicker pickers is finally starting to make a move on the team championship.

	12-11-2003 02:09									#76
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I don't understand the Packers defense, Philadelphia has such all-pro receivers in Pinkston and Thrash(right!) why wouldn't you jam those guys at the line, they seemed to break away way too easy for their lack of talent. Or is it, that the Packers Harris and McKenzie(the hair twins) just *uck that bad.
Excellent game against the Vikes last week and turn a turd here at Lambeau. Now we face a very angry Tampa, this should be a very heavily drinked game.

	12-11-2003 03:07									#77
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I forsee the Pack getting revenge on the Bucs for last year's loss and Sapp's cheap shot during that game.

	12-11-2003 03:18									#78
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As for that lame article going about how the NFL is going downhill: I agree with Diss.

The NFC sucks? Could this be due to the league restructure? Seattle still looks good, are the Panthers still a NFC team? Anyway, I could really care less who is better AFC vs. NFC, it really all comes down to one team. All I hope for is some good play-off games and a great super bowl.

	12-11-2003 03:23									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay I think this brings up some good points, especially the need for loosening the salary cap and more exemptions. Teams like the Lions and Bears, who used to be at least mediocre, are now stuck in a spiral of suckiness because they can't sign draft picks and attract top-notch free agents due to of cap restrictions. Also very telling is the inability of Super Bowl teams to get back in again. Maybe parity works a little too well.

Sure they can, it's their inability to do so that makes them suck.

Give them the first two picks and they'll screw it up, develop somebody and they will trade or release him.

It's the Front Office of those teams that make them suck, not the salary cap.

Look at the 49'ers, thay went from great team, to lousy team, to playoff team in three years, they had a lot worse cap problems than DEtroit or Chicago have, and yet they rebuilt.

ACK!

ACK!

	12-11-2003 03:29									#80
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The only valid point in that whole article was how the cap somewhat limits your depth, making some teams more sensitive to injuries. KC hasn't had any major injuries. Coincidence?

RAH
And, yes, the Bears would still suck.

	12-11-2003 04:16									#81
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quote: Give them the first two picks and they'll screw it up, develop somebody and they will trade or release him.

Yeah, because in most cases, teams don't really have a choice in trading or releasing developed talent. They're forced into inevitable either/or choices because of the cap. They're not "screwing up" anything, they're dealing with the realities of the cap.

quote: Look at the 49'ers, thay went from great team, to lousy team, to playoff team in three years, they had a lot worse cap problems than DEtroit or Chicago have, and yet they rebuilt.

Oh, hot diggity dog. I know there's nothing I like better than a bunch of teams whose year-to-year performance looks like a sine wave from Hell. It's basically now the same team playing in different uniforms. Booooring.

	12-11-2003 04:36									#82
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quote: Ummm, he never started a game last year, Imran.

Oops, 2 years ago, then. He threw 18 INTs and 15 TDs in 2001.

quote: I hate the Bills. They lost 4 Super Bowls in a row last decade, when AFC sucked. They didn't even deserve to be there. I mean, it's like the AFC said "Is anybody going to the Super Bowl this year? Anybody??? Oh, alright, send the Bills". I think they are overrated and always have been.

You are on CRACK! The Bills teams of the early '90s were great teams. They simply couldn't get it done in the Superbowl. Thurmond Thomas is easily one of the best RBs of the 90s, while Kelly to Reed and Lofton and Thomas was a devestating passing attack. The Red Gun offense was a very potent one.

--

And yes, the article is full of crap .

quote: Can anyone think of three truly compelling games in the NFL this season?

Easily. The Monday Night game between Tampa/Indy was one. The Denver/KC game where Hall's return won it for the Chiefs. SF/St. Louis where the Niners lost when their boneheaded reciever didn't get down quick enough.

That's among many other great games I've seen.

quote: He's saying that most of the games have been subpar to mediocre because teams can't really "build up" because of the rather draconian restrictions.

Bull. Most games have been very good and well played. Some teams being able to 'buld up' are just going to lead to MORE blowouts like in the 80s.

--

Right now is the best time in NFL history. The game is better than it ever has been.

	12-11-2003 04:40									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay Yeah, because in most cases, teams don't really have a choice in trading or releasing developed talent. They're forced into inevitable either/or choices because of the cap. They're not "screwing up" anything, they're dealing with the realities of the cap. Oh, hot diggity dog. I know there's nothing I like better than a bunch of teams whose year-to-year performance looks like a sine wave from Hell. It's basically now the same team playing in different uniforms. Booooring.

Okay, another example, Pittsburgh Steelers. They always lose players to free agency and yet, until this year, they have remained competitive.

Again, because they have a good front office. Plus, the teams you mentioned Detroit and Chicago, who wants to play for them?

If they learn to keep the talent they develop, they will get free agents in there.

Cincinnati Bengals: what big name player in the last ten years has gone there? None. But, they are developing the talent.

This article sounds like a whiny excuse for Detroit and Chicago fans:

"Boo Hoo, we can't possibly win with this salary cap, even though 30 other teams are able to."

ACK!

ACK!

	12-11-2003 04:41									#84
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quote: The game is better than it ever has been.

For sure Finally, some competition.

As a Niner fan I long for the good ol' days of consistency and mob tactics, but I am much happier now to be able to watch decent games, with each side having an actual chance at winning.

	12-11-2003 06:03									#85
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i'm going to laugh my a$$ off next week when DALLAS BEATS the patriots. MARK MY WORDS THE BOYS WILL BE IN THE SUPERBOWL!

	12-11-2003 06:30									#86
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quote: This article sounds like a whiny excuse for Detroit and Chicago fans:

Commie Someone needs to get thrown out of helicopter.

quote: Okay, another example, Pittsburgh Steelers. They always lose players to free agency and yet, until this year, they have remained competitive.

What about the Steelers? They pretty much prove my point. They lost the Super Bowl in 95, havent been back since, and,to date, have 3 losing seasons and one barely above .500. In other words, distinctly average despite the fact they have a GREAT coach (best in the league, IMO), and a strong front office. So why aren't they better?

quote: Cincinnati Bengals: what big name player in the last ten years has gone there? None. But, they are developing the talent.

The bengals eh? They've won one more game than the Lions have with 7 to go. Real up and comers.

quote: "Boo Hoo, we can't possibly win with this salary cap, even though 30 other teams are able to."

Which teams? The mediocre Ravens? The mediocre Packers? The mediocre Vikings? The mediocre Bucs? They're all the same team! The names and uniforms are just different.

	12-11-2003 06:53									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay Commie Someone needs to get thrown out of helicopter.

This is uncalled for, obviously struck a nerve.

quote: Which teams? The mediocre Ravens? The mediocre Packers? The mediocre Vikings? The mediocre Bucs? They're all the same team! The names and uniforms are just different.

Then stop watching.

Who wants to see dynasties? Dynasties are boring, look at baseball, who cares if the Yankees win, their supposed to.

Baseball has no salary cap.

Give me Dallas coming out of nowhere to lead their division, Give me The Bucs standing at 4-5 and out of contention for divisional title.

Don't give me the Yankees in the World Series.......again........

ACK!

	12-11-2003 06:58									#88
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I don't like the salary caps. I like to see the same teams in the playoffs every year. It's funner to watch your team beat a team in the playoffs that maybe it lost to the year before than to watch your team beat some team in the playoffs that was maybe 5 - 11 the previous year.

	12-11-2003 07:22									#89
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I like a fair playing field... but I do wish they could come up with a system that helps the teams keep their veteran players who may not be the Super Stars... The current system sucks, but I like the leveling of the playfield that it provides.

	12-11-2003 08:17									#90
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"i'm going to laugh my a$$ off next week when DALLAS BEATS the patriots. MARK MY WORDS THE BOYS WILL BE IN THE SUPERBOWL!"

Yeah, right, whatever...

The Cowboys are riding high right now, but they're downfall is very, very soon.