05-11-2003 00:56									#1
	Old idea: Direct effect techs Remove this text

As I've posted here in the past, I think it is good for a Civ game to unlock features as the game progresses, or rather that the player unlocks features himself by discovering them. It allows the game to get renewed even as it nears its end, and it gives new forms of aims to the player. For example, in Civ3, the tech "Nationalism" unlocks many diplomatic features that give some fresh air to the diplomacy of industrial era.

Nationalism is what I call a "Direct Effect Tech", i.e a tech that has immediate effects from which you profit, even though you haven't built anything.

I think it would be good in Civ-games to have many such direct-effect techs. Some could unlock new features, but some could simply give you a boost:
For example, I think it would be sound if the discovery of "scientific method" slightly raised scientific production everywhere, even where there aren't any universities. I think it would be sound if the discovery of "Constitution" reduced the corruption across your empire immediately. Or if the discovery of "Tactics" gave your military units an edge.

Since these direct-effect technologies could be quite potent, I think they should only give the bonus and nothing else. I mean, I think "Scientific Method" should be researched with the sole intent to get the bonus: the tech otherwise doesn't contribute to anything, it is no requirement for later techs, and doesn't allow new city-improvements or wonders.

I am in that inspired with Civ3's techs that are only useful for one thing: Chivalry's only use is to allow you to build knights; Genetic Engineering's only use is to allow you to build 2 wonders. Such techs bring nothing else and aren't needed at all later in the game.

I'm also thinking of "wonder techs": techs which give you a real big bonus as soon as you have discovered them. These techs could only be known by the Civ that has discovered it first. Such techs would be exactly the same as wonders. For example, "Cure for Cancer" could be a wonder-tech. "Sun Tzu's Art of War" could be too.

Here's a short and not-exhaustive list of possible direct-effect techs (I am no expert in all these fields, so the names I'm spouting can be historically wholly inaccurate):

- Political techs (reduce corruption):
Empire, Constitution, Bureaucracy, Electronic Government.

- Scientific techs (raise sci output):
Literacy, Invention, Scientific Method, Ethics

- Commercial techs (raise taxes):
Currency, Economics, Corporation, Globalization

- Work-organization techs (raise shield production):
Slavery, Feudalism, Division of Labour, Flexibility

- Agricultural techs (raise food production):
Crop rotation, Fertilizers

The effects of these direct-effect techs should not stack, but should rather be independent from the previous related direct-effect tech. For example, "Division of Labour" can give you exactly the same production boost, whether you researched Feudalism or not. If you researched Feudalism, your loss now.

What do you think?

	05-11-2003 11:01									#2
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*applauds* Nice.
Suppose some wonders involved both its wonder tech and a construction portion? The reward could go to whoever completes both parts first.

	05-11-2003 15:15									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

Very well thought out, Spiffor. I especially like the part about techs unlocking features (which you described in detail in another thread).

A feature that I would like to see in a Civ game, that is also tech related, is the ability to research multiple techs at the same time (Perhaps have universities unlock this feature). I know that for simplicity, Firaxis/Microprose have always gone with the on-tech-at-a-time approach, but I would like to have the ability to research multiple techs at the same time. Perhaps throw in a random event that allows for instant research of a tech.

Asmodean

	05-11-2003 19:41									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Asmodean A feature that I would like to see in a Civ game, that is also tech related, is the ability to research multiple techs at the same time (Perhaps have universities unlock this feature). I know that for simplicity, Firaxis/Microprose have always gone with the on-tech-at-a-time approach, but I would like to have the ability to research multiple techs at the same time.

This is one of those real-life issues that would not translate into enjoyable gameplay.

Say you have a list of 4 techs - each requiring 200 science points to reach. You bring in 50 science points per turn.

The total science required to get all techs is 800, and it will take you a total of 16 turns to get all of the techs.

If you do not divide up your science, you will get a new tech every 4 turns. If you do divide up your science, you will not get any tech faster - in fact you end up delaying getting any techs unless you allocate all of your science to one tech.

At the end of 16 turns, both ways will net you 4 techs - the end result would still be the same, but the important thing to remember is when you get the techs.

In my example, if you equally allocate science between the 4 techs, it would take you 16 turns to get any techs. The current system gives you a new tech every 4 turns. Different allocations would change when you get a tech, but the bottom line is that single-tech science allocation gives you a tech in the best way. I'd rather have a tech in hand now rather than delaying getting any techs. The only way I'd consider it is if I got some kind of bonus for splitting my research, which would reduce science requirements (like making the total cost of the 4 techs 750 science if I allocated to all 4 fields) This would actually make sense too - a player who broadens his fields of research will be more efficient.

EU2 does use a system that allows multiple allocation, but it seems most players end up pouring most of their research into 1 branch (usually infrastructure).