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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-General > I have to know: Marine+Berserk Armies?
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Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 05-11-2003 06:50
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I have to know: Marine+Berserk Armies? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Do they work?

* Theseus thinks that the Scandinavians are going to be BAD-*SSES anyway, but will burn a kid goat in thanks for a functional Marine+3xBerserk Army.

[Note: No offense to any goat lovers out there...]

RobC is offline RobC
Warlord

Aug 2001
time: 21:31
  Old Post 05-11-2003 07:47 Visit RobC's homepage!
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I'm pretty sure that mixed unit armies cannot amphibiously attack, even if the original units can; they have to be all the same unit (all Berserks or Marines should work)

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
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  Old Post 05-11-2003 09:35
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I bet it would work; it probably only tests the flags.

publius is offline publius
Settler

May 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 05-11-2003 10:57
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they can't amphibiously attack because you can't load a unit bearing unit into another unit bearing unit.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 05-11-2003 10:57
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Yes, you CAN load armies into a transport. Trust me.

ChrisiusMaximus is offline ChrisiusMaximus
Emperor
Staffordshire England
Jul 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 05-11-2003 12:27
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Yes trust him, I do it all the time , load unit bearing units into unit bearing units that is

Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS is offline Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley, MD
May 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 05-11-2003 20:33 Visit Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS's homepage!
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An army gains the abilities of the units it is comprised of if and only if all of said units are of the same type. Therefore, a marine+berserk army will NOT have the ability to do an amphibious assault. Although both units can do an amphibious assault, Marines and Berserks are radically different units and realistically operate in different ways.

And yes you can load armies onto transports.

Last edited by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS on 05-11-2003 at 20:39

TheArsenal is offline TheArsenal
Prince
Sunny Southern California
Mar 2002
time: 21:31
  Old Post 05-11-2003 21:33
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No flaming or trolling. Just asking. This comment confuses me, because I don’t understand the concept of “realistically operate in different ways”. Marine/ Berserk Army can attack on land with no problems, as can all mixed Armies I’ve seen. I have put Cavalry in with Immortals, which couldn’t operate more differently. I am unable to grasp what makes the amphibious assault that much different than the land based attack in that respect.

- edit: grammar, of course.

Tall Stranger is offline Tall Stranger
Warlord
Northern Virginia
Nov 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 05-11-2003 21:50
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I was wondering what that anguished wail I heard a few minutes ago was. Now I know that Theseus just read Mike's post.

Mike, with all due respect, I agree with TheArsenal: the logic of your explanation doesn't hold up. I could understand (maybe) if you had said that it would be too unbalancing, but "operate in different ways"??

Too bad, I was really hoping to get me a goat steak!

Shogun Gunner is offline Shogun Gunner

Emperor
Potomac Falls, Virginia
Oct 2000
time: 00:31
  Old Post 05-11-2003 22:43 Visit Shogun Gunner<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by publius
they can't amphibiously attack because you can't load a unit bearing unit into another unit bearing unit.


You can't load an army if the transport doesn't have enough capacity for everyone in the army. It's awesome when transports show up...boatloads of armies on their way to conquer the enemy!!!

Arrian is offline Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
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  Old Post 05-11-2003 22:49
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Doh! Sorry Theseus!

And yeah, the explanation doesn't really work.

-Arrian

G'Kar is offline G'Kar
Prince
St. Louis, USA
Aug 2003
time: 23:31
  Old Post 05-11-2003 22:57 Visit G'Kar's homepage!
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You know I've never blown an army on a bunch of marines before... but a marine army could knockout many cities with ease. With the new improvements, I'm gonna have to build more armies from now on.

Tacit_Exit is offline Tacit_Exit
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:31
  Old Post 06-11-2003 00:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
An army gains the abilities of the units it is comprised of if and only if all of said units are of the same type.


So does this mean a Paratrooper Army can Paradrop?

Shogun Gunner is offline Shogun Gunner

Emperor
Potomac Falls, Virginia
Oct 2000
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  Old Post 06-11-2003 00:49 Visit Shogun Gunner<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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I hope the AI computer player uses armies more too. That could change some warfare strategies if the computer was adapt at punching a hole in your lines with an army or two.

RobC is offline RobC
Warlord

Aug 2001
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  Old Post 06-11-2003 01:00 Visit RobC's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
Doh! Sorry Theseus!

And yeah, the explanation doesn't really work.

-Arrian


Maybe a better explanation is "it's just way easier to code that way..."

Arrian is offline Arrian
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Jul 2001
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  Old Post 06-11-2003 02:09
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That I would accept.

-Arrian

Jaguar is offline Jaguar
King
Montgomery County, MD
Apr 2000
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-11-2003 03:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
An army gains the abilities of the units it is comprised of if and only if all of said units are of the same type. Therefore, a marine+berserk army will NOT have the ability to do an amphibious assault. Although both units can do an amphibious assault, Marines and Berserks are radically different units and realistically operate in different ways.

And yes you can load armies onto transports.

So you mean that an all marine army would be amphibious, and an all bezerk army would be amphibious, but once you mix them it doesn't work?

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
Emperor
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Mar 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 06-11-2003 04:25 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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Yes that's what he means.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 06-11-2003 04:34
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quote:
Originally posted by RobC


Maybe a better explanation is "it's just way easier to code that way..."


I don't even see that though. How much more difficult is it to compare flags on a unit than to compare type?

RobC is offline RobC
Warlord

Aug 2001
time: 21:31
  Old Post 06-11-2003 05:07 Visit RobC's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by skywalker


I don't even see that though. How much more difficult is it to compare flags on a unit than to compare type?


The reason probably has to do with the possibility of different flags affecting each other in unplanned or unexpected ways. It's just much safer to say that the types have to be the same (therefore guaranteeing that all the flags are aligned) than to just compare one flag and hope it doesn't make something else either break or end up doing something wierd (the king unit flag comes to mind...)

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-11-2003 06:58
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AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will NEVER give up on this... I will spam Bruno Bonnell if I have too!!

"Dear Mr. Bonnell,

I am an avid fan of Civ3, and congratulations on C3C.

I am, however, a wee bit perturbed with an oversight. As you may know, I am a fan of mixed-unit Armies. Well, let me tell you, sir, the lack of Berserk and Marine cooperation in Armies is an OUTRAGE!!

Seeing as Atari is a public company, and as CEO you are bound, BOUND may I remind you, under Sarbanes-Oxley to disclose all critical aspects of your business operations, I examined your recent 10-K for information re this disastrous oversight.

And lo and behold... NOTHING!!! No mention of Berserks, Marines, or Armies at all!!!

WHAT ARE YOU HIDING??!!

I demand that this be addressed immediately. I suggest a conference call with the full bevy of Wall Street analysts, a public statement, and a clearly laid out plan for redress.

Otherwise, the SEC shall be informed (and you know how they like mixed-unit Armies!!). And, you will be pleased to know that Graef Crystal (another fan of mixed-unit Armies) has already been informed of this unfortunate incident, and is eagerly awaiting the outcome before publicly commenting on your latest compensation package.

On a brighter note, C3C seems to be the next iteration of the Civilization series that PTW was not... again, my congratulations, and I strongly suggest that Atari throw a beer bash for all involved, including its own staff, Firaxis, Breakaway, and the beta testers (of which I was NOT one, which will be discussed in my next missive).

Respectfully,

Theseus"


(Thanks for the response, Mike! Fix it in a patch, maybe? C'mon, it'd be cool... the 'Theseus Patch'. )

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
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  Old Post 06-11-2003 09:02
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@ Theseus

I can just picture how that would be recieved.

Wooglin is offline Wooglin
Chieftain

Jul 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-11-2003 12:05
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Honestly, as a lawyer I've recieved letters like that, but yours is by far the best. If I worked for Atari, I would give in.

--Woog

Tiberius is offline Tiberius

Emperor
Europe
Jan 2000
time: 06:31
  Old Post 06-11-2003 12:17
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Poor Theseus

From what I understand from this thread, I assume that Paratrooper armies can paradrop, Modern Paratrooper armies can paradrop, but mixed paratrooper-modern paratrooper mixed armies can't paradrop. Am I correct?

Btw, Theseus, have you ever imagined how a mixed berserk-marines army, making an amphibious assault, would look like in real life?

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