27-11-2003 14:18									#421
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quote: He's built his protective shell and he's staying inside it.

The lad is quite amazing. He hardly drinks. After the final he was grabbed by Matt Dawson and told “Right. You ARE going to party”. He later said he had a few drinks “but that was more for squad solidarity than anything else”.

Had I won a world cup final I’d still be drinking now!

quote: You couldn't change your squad except for injury

I was suggesting Eddie might have abused this by having the lad ‘fall over’ in training.

quote: But they have to be ticked, relatively speaking, as the achievers of the event.

The ‘most improved’ side by some distance I agree.

quote: Whatever, I'm not going to let up.

I wouldn’t expect you to.

quote: On the one hand, it's scary that people can be so stupid. On the other hand, it's scary to realise the power one has over those people.

I’m sure I have seen the Sullivans at some point. Your point is well taken – when I think about it I find it scary that so many people cannot separate reality from fiction. I feel sorry for the actors who play ‘unsympathetic’ characters in soaps – I think they have some rare experiences in public at times.

quote: Against the NH players? Only if they had rights, which, given that Australia is a different country, they don't

I see the point – but given that we haven’t been able to secure our own leagues against SH players I think there must be a wriggle somewhere. It could be affiliation to the IRB perhaps? Never the less my point is the stampede of UK players wanting to head south is not going to run you down – and as we know cash seems to be the cause of it.

Funny you should mention Caucau – more on that later.

quote: What they're policing is the boot action - requiring a backwards motion with the foot rather than the stomp.

Unfortunately it has been translated almost universally here as if you use your boot you will concede a penalty. It’s been too Draconian and therefore lying on the ball has become a huge problem in our domestic game again.

quote: As I've observed before, bogus tries come home to roost.

It’s so long ago I can hardly remember the controversy. The First of the five game winning run I believe.

quote: Exactly. And arrogance can't be put aside, because arrogant is what it is.

I meant only I didn’t wish to get involved in analysing the arrogance of the decision but wanted to look at the consequences. I cannot argue with the fact it’s arrogant of the NZRFU.

quote: I'd've thought a first - and less complicated - step would be to develop a game strategy beyond unstructured attack.

A new forwards coach, a few changes in the pack and they could be a formidable side indeed even if they stuck with plan A. What they need to begin with is a front row in my opinion.

quote: Oh, and I notice the Leicester scrummy copped 10 weeks for a Liverpool Kiss. Havak's obviously been down at training handing out tips again.

Harry Ellis – young scrum half and very much in the England frame in the next few years. The club is appealing of course. I was at the wrong end of the ground so didn’t catch the finer details but the guy he ‘kissed’, Steve Hanley, towers over him so whilst I have to condemn foul play a small part of me says good on the lad for standing up.

It’s all change at tigers – Dan Lyle has been finessed out the door, the Bok RWC fullback is apparently on his way just for this season, Josh bows out on Saturday and we have secured the services of the Welsh hooker we have on short term loan for the rest of the season – he looks very promising. With Westy returning that makes our third hooker Chuter seemingly dead weight – he has blown his big chance when just three years ago he was though a future England prospect not just Tigers – it’s a fickle game.

Still with Ellis out it means the Irish lad Tom Tierney or My Healey will play scrummy. Austin has been covering fullback with Stimpson released early and Murphy still crocked.

The big question is will the return of RWC players help us? I hope so.

So – Caucaunibuca has quit Fiji with the aim of pursuing an AB contract? Hmm – that isn’t currently possible under the eligibility regs. Lets dig deeper – oh look at that, a review of eligibility regulations has been requested by both NZ and Australia. What a huge surprise!

Say what you like about players being entitled to choose who to represent – that’s one argument – but once you have represented a side at full international level that is it surely – and I trust the IRB will nip this nonsense in the bud.

What next – Wendell Sailor wants to play for England? The Horror!!

	27-11-2003 16:37									#422
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The lad is quite amazing. He hardly drinks. After the final he was grabbed by Matt Dawson and told “Right. You ARE going to party”. He later said he had a few drinks “but that was more for squad solidarity than anything else”.

What a Nancy! I was surprised to read that he has a girlfriend. I shall say no more.

quote: Had I won a world cup final I’d still be drinking now!

Yes, but you're a drunk.

quote: I’m sure I have seen the Sullivans at some point. Your point is well taken – when I think about it I find it scary that so many people cannot separate reality from fiction. I feel sorry for the actors who play ‘unsympathetic’ characters in soaps – I think they have some rare experiences in public at times.

They deserve it. Most actors are turds.

quote: I see the point – but given that we haven’t been able to secure our own leagues against SH players I think there must be a wriggle somewhere.

I thought you had a quota on foreign players - by which I mean, from outside the EU. County cricket certainly has.

quote: Never the less my point is the stampede of UK players wanting to head south is not going to run you down – and as we know cash seems to be the cause of it.

They wouldn't be allowed here anyway. New Zealand might be different.

quote: Funny you should mention Caucau – more on that later.

Yes, indeed.

quote: Unfortunately it has been translated almost universally here as if you use your boot you will concede a penalty. It’s been too Draconian and therefore lying on the ball has become a huge problem in our domestic game again.

That's silly. It was allowed in the RWC. The only times I saw it pulled up was when it wasn't a rake.

quote: It’s so long ago I can hardly remember the controversy. The First of the five game winning run I believe.

Four legitimate wins.

quote: Harry Ellis – young scrum half and very much in the England frame in the next few years. The club is appealing of course. I was at the wrong end of the ground so didn’t catch the finer details but the guy he ‘kissed’, Steve Hanley, towers over him so whilst I have to condemn foul play a small part of me says good on the lad for standing up.

Presumably he will call the step ladder to give evidence at the appeal.

quote: It’s all change at tigers – Still with Ellis out it means the Irish lad Tom Tierney or My Healey will play scrummy. Austin has been covering fullback with Stimpson released early and Murphy still crocked.

Welsh, Irish, Italian ... your Tory attitudes don't extend to club football, I notice.

quote: So – Caucaunibuca has quit Fiji with the aim of pursuing an AB contract? Hmm – that isn’t currently possible under the eligibility regs. Lets dig deeper – oh look at that, a review of eligibility regulations has been requested by both NZ and Australia. What a huge surprise!

I'd be surprised if he were allowed. He shouldn't be. I didn't know requests had been made. I must check them out.

Edit. I just read the article. Bit of a beat-up. There's no reference to a request to rewrite the eligibility rules. Anyway, there's no chance of them being changed to the extent that they would need to be changed for Caucau to become an AB. Even if Australia and NZ voted in favour - and Australia shouldn't! - the NH nations would outvote them.

quote: Say what you like about players being entitled to choose who to represent – that’s one argument – but once you have represented a side at full international level that is it surely – and I trust the IRB will nip this nonsense in the bud.

Hopefully. And if they do, and Caucau is denied the chance to play for the ABs - as should happen - what becomes of Caucau? A stateless rugby player? The chappie has well and truly made his bed ...

quote: What next – Wendell Sailor wants to play for England? The Horror!!

I'd suggest you take him but it's hardly worth wasting the precious ether to do so.

	27-11-2003 16:43									#423
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog Any bets on when Woodward gets knighted?

I suppose this is the English equivalent of the French Légion d'Honneur, though these times this award is sometimes given to anybody (French S***** World Champions for example)...

	27-11-2003 16:51									#424
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Is that when the French President gets to pin a chook to a person's chest and stick his tongue down the person's throat?

	27-11-2003 17:15									#425
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Is that when the French President gets to pin a chook to a person's chest and stick his tongue down the person's throat?

No, the said President only stick a red pin called the "Boutonnière" and kiss the receiver though he does not give him a French kiss... the Russians do.

	27-11-2003 17:21									#426
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News years honour list Andydog. The government keeps a close eye on public opinion and I think this is all but done and dusted therefore. The more worrying rumour is that Jonno is apparently in line for the same whilst still playing.

And here come England let out by ‘Sir’ Martin Johnson. It’s a throwback to empire times!

quote: What a Nancy! I was surprised to read that he has a girlfriend. I shall say no more.

quote: Yes, but you're a drunk.

Only when I’m awake.

I managed to forget you probably have experience of actors.

quote: I thought you had a quota on foreign players - by which I mean, from outside the EU. County cricket certainly has.

A quota yes – but not a bar. I think it is three to a match day squad. Where it falls down is that a lot of non UK players qualify via EU status – Pasta kiwis and all that.

quote: They wouldn't be allowed here anyway. New Zealand might be different.

Protectionism! This means no more ‘Clives’ can ply their trade down there!



And if you get a fourth franchise who are you going to play in it incidentally?

quote: That's silly. It was allowed in the RWC. The only times I saw it pulled up was when it wasn't a rake.

That’s the problem – our best refs went down there believe it or not. We got left with the Maybanks and the Rowdens and rucking has been a nightmare with them.

quote: Four legitimate wins.

Five according to the record books.

quote: Presumably he will call the step ladder to give evidence at the appeal.

From what I actually saw (and I was up the wrong end of the ground) it was an off the ball after tackle incident on the floor.

quote: Welsh, Irish, Italian ... your Tory attitudes don't extend to club football, I notice.

Naturally. You haven’t named a single foreigner there anyway.

quote: Edit. I just read the article. Bit of a beat-up

Yes I know – sorry, just couldn’t resist stirring the old subject up with it.
Do you really think all the NH nations would all vote against it. I can see Scotland licking their lips at the thought of turning the likes of Mehrtens Scottish.

quote: what becomes of Caucau? A stateless rugby player? The chappie has well and truly made his bed ...

As you say – never burn bridges behind you until you know a safe route forward.

quote: I'd suggest you take him but it's hardly worth wasting the precious ether to do so.

To be honest I couldn’t handle the newspapers if he came this way – “Hello Sailor!”.
Did you notice the Planet Rugby awards – a special mention to Big ‘Dell for disappearing for 70 minutes in the final?

Knighthoods are rather strange. For a start to use the honorific ‘Sir’ you must be British – but you can still be awarded a KBE (knighthood) if you are foreign. Most knighthoods even now are rewarded to ‘faceless’ people as opposed to ‘famous’ – for centuries it was a regular perk of senior civil service.

But then don’t get me started on British class system and the legacy of ‘bought’ titles and meaningless honorifics.

Not until I’ve stopped laughing at Finbar’s last post anyway.

	27-11-2003 17:23									#427
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Hey Tamerlin. I'm getting a bit worried about my Petit Ophrys. Haven't heard another word from French Amazon. I might forward you the email I got from them which, as far as I can tell, just confirms the order. Maybe you can check it to make sure I wasn't asked to confirm back again or something?

	27-11-2003 17:34									#428
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I managed to forget you probably have experience of actors.

Most actors are basically children. And, unfortunately, the better the actor, the bigger the child.

quote: Protectionism! This means no more ‘Clives’ can ply their trade down there!

They could in club rugby if they chose. Which he did. I gather he was working in a bank or something here at the time.

quote: Do you really think all the NH nations would all vote against it. I can see Scotland licking their lips at the thought of turning the likes of Mehrtens Scottish.

I think enough would vote against it.

quote: As you say – never burn bridges behind you until you know a safe route forward.

Very drastic step he's taken, isn't it.

quote: Did you notice the Planet Rugby awards – a special mention to Big ‘Dell for disappearing for 70 minutes in the final?

Spot on. He's saying that he will stay with rugby. Here till 2005, then a couple of years in Japan, then retirement.

quote: Knighthoods are rather strange. For a start to use the honorific ‘Sir’ you must be British – but you can still be awarded a KBE (knighthood) if you are foreign.

I think we still have knighthoods here along with the OAs or AOs or whatever they are. If you're gonged with a knighthood here, you're a "Sir". And a poonce.

quote: Not until I’ve stopped laughing at Finbar’s last post anyway.

I thought he took it rather well, too. But what does he have against Russians? Apart from his chum Napoleon's total and abject failure in that neck of the chilly woods?

	27-11-2003 18:47									#429
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I thought he took it rather well, too. But what does he have against Russians? Apart from his chum Napoleon's total and abject failure in that neck of the chilly woods?

I have nothing at all against the Russians except if one of them is trying to greet me like their officials do as they are kissing themselves on the lips, history will tell us if they have sometimes used their tongue or not in special occasions... perhaps the Prince of Wales knows the answer.

	27-11-2003 20:14									#430
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quote: Most actors are basically children. And, unfortunately, the better the actor, the bigger the child.

That Russell Crowe is a terrific actor isn’t he?

quote: They could in club rugby if they chose. Which he did. I gather he was working in a bank or something here at the time.

He was a ‘Merchant Banker’?

quote: I think enough would vote against it.

I suspect you are right.

quote: Very drastic step he's taken, isn't it.

All…or Nothing?

quote: He's saying that he will stay with rugby. Here till 2005, then a couple of years in Japan, then retirement.

Known as doing a Kefu? Where is Toutai by the way – I thought we might get some more ‘tongue in cheek’ reaction from him? As in ‘who wears red coats before a game?’

quote: If you're gonged with a knighthood here, you're a "Sir". And a poonce.

I’m sorry you are quite right – Commonwealth citizens can use the title too. I was thinking of people like Geldof (Irish) and the various Yanks who have got them (and I always think that is very funny given the Constitution apparently notionally prevents you assuming such titles?)

I am of course ‘Lord Havak of the most noble order of the booze cupboard’ myself.

quote: I thought he took it rather well, too

And expertly turned your follow up to point to the Prince of Wales!

Am Empire is ruled by an Emporer, a Kingdom is ruled by a King, A Principality is ruled by a Prince, and Countries are ruled by...?

(John Howard, Tony Blair and Jacques Chirac?)

	28-11-2003 03:20									#431
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin perhaps the Prince of Wales knows the answer.

Thanks very much! I've just brought up my breakfast!

	28-11-2003 03:37									#432
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quote: Originally posted by Havak That Russell Crowe is a terrific actor isn’t he?

I've denounced him here before, have I? Boorish twayt.

quote: Known as doing a Kefu? Where is Toutai by the way – I thought we might get some more ‘tongue in cheek’ reaction from him? As in ‘who wears red coats before a game?’

He had his fun. I'm amazed anyone took it seriously. I expect he's now off taking Sumo classes, or practising his Tea Ceremony etiquette, or fathoming how to tackle 5' 2" oppo without getting charged with murder.

quote: Am Empire is ruled by an Emporer, a Kingdom is ruled by a King, A Principality is ruled by a Prince, and Countries are ruled by...? (John Howard, Tony Blair and Jacques Chirac?)

Oldie but a goodie. A bit like the line about the singer - insert any appalling country singer - who put the (you know what) back into country music.

Speaking of which, I notice Rik Mayall has a new TV series in which his character is called Cnut. Will the boy ever grow up? Speaking of which, I recall, many years ago - 1980 or 1981 - I was living in Adelaide for my sins. In those days they had a wonderful Arts Festival, subsequently rendered infirm by political and funding squabbles. Anyway, one of the acts I saw was the then largely unknown (here, anyway) Comic Strip. Alexi Sayle was MC, with Mayall, Ade Edmonson, Nigel Planer, Peter Richardson, French & Saunders, et al. It was a couple of years prior to "Young Ones", and quite a few years prior to French and Saunders' fame. The unfortunate thing is that I recall absolutely nothing about the show apart from Alexi's MCing, which was, um, colourful.

	28-11-2003 09:53									#433
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Hmmm ... I'd like to know exactly what happened to that moral high road the English supporters were supposed to be taking?

I got a bottle of this in my e-mail last night.

Attachment: aussie_wine.jpg
This has been downloaded 43 time(s).

	28-11-2003 10:41									#434
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If their rugby were as sophisticated as their wit, they'd've lost to Uruguay.

	30-11-2003 04:32									#435
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Just in case Havak was hoping no one would notice. Despite Leicester bringing back all their WRC chaps either starting or on the bench, and despite the oppo losing a player to a red card:

Bath 13 -d- Leicester 12

Thus it can said with complete accuracy, at this point in time, that the WRC was the last match J**** ever won.



Edit. Oh, and the Leicester scrummy has had his suspension for Liverpool Kissing reduced from ten weeks to seven on appeal. This from the RFU appeal guy:

quote: Jeff Blackett, the RFU disciplinary officer, who heard the appeal as an arbitrator, said: "I accepted the finding of the panel that it was not a deliberate act but that it was reckless. "He did not intend to inflict injury on any other player and it was not a case of head-butting but the less serious offence of striking an opponent with his head in a reckless manner."

So the obfuscation that makes a mockery of the international judicial system is alive and well in the English system too.

	30-11-2003 16:20									#436
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Excuse me, Tamerlin

Just in case you didn't notice You know how fast this thread is. Sorry this question is not about rugby-

That new mini series on Napoleon has got me back into that period with a vengence - I'm curious, how (as far as you know) do the French see him today? Is he treated in popular opinion and French history with reverence and respect for his laws/public works and greatness or like any dictator who led many soldiers to their death?

I know he has quite a tomb at Les Invalids.











(and no, I'm not trying to fill the void of losing the world cup )

	01-12-2003 04:12									#437
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Tamerlin probably wouldn't have minded having Napoleon in the centres against England.

Mmmmm. No. On second thoughts, they already had their full complement of tactical boneheads.

	01-12-2003 06:40									#438
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quote: Originally posted by NeoStar That new mini series on Napoleon has got me back into that period with a vengence - I'm curious, how (as far as you know) do the French see him today? Is he treated in popular opinion and French history with reverence and respect for his laws/public works and greatness or like any dictator who led many soldiers to their death?

That's the one on SBS a little after the soccer? Missed it last night, sadly, but I've been watching it for the past few weeks.
I've garnered the impression that it seems to be going out of its way to emphasize that his achievements were more by good fortune than by good management - not something I agree with altogether - but its still interesting viewing.

quote: So the obfuscation that makes a mockery of the international judicial system is alive and well in the English system too.

Actually I like a little 'room for interpretation' myself. IMHO there can be a world of difference between an intentional and a non-intentional foul.
More to the point I think you want to allow leeway for the seriousness of the victimised players injuries too.
An accidental trip leading to a broken ankle might only warrant a couple of matches on the bench whereas tripping with intent should probably keep the guilty party out for as long as the injury took to heal.

Besides which, a seven match suspension is still pretty harsh reduced from ten. Look at all of those AFL players throwing forearms, punches and such, who might miss a couple of matches for something particularly vicious.
If they get lucky they're only out for a week.

	01-12-2003 14:24									#439
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Thanks for pointing out the result Finbar.

The only up side of it is that it finally shut up the morons on the terrace who had been saying for months "it will be all right when the boys get back".

Playing seven guys who were forwards did nothing to help the huge deficiences now evident behind the pack. To the extent that Austin at fullback was the most threatening back by a long way.

Gibson after a few solid games early on seems on pension taking autopilot - young Smith is making huge tackles but never getting any ball in an offensive move. Holtby lacks experience on the wing (how we missed the new rocket boy Baxter there) and Freddie Tuilagi has been sussed by the entire league as a one dimensional banger - and was again lucky not to be carded for not using arms in the tackle.

If you can't beat 14 men when you have nearly 60 minutes to have a go then alarm bells should be ringing.

Dean Richards take on it - the RWC lads returning "disrupted training and affected our preperation".

That one left me speechless Finbar - maybe Denial is just a river in Africa after all?

By the way Woods stamped deliberately on a players head - shall we see how the RFU treat their favourites Bath on this?

Oh yes - and some very distateful Racism from a drunken Welsh bath fan (!) on the terrace as Pez the Italian fly half missed a penalty for us with the last kick (it would have been a travesty had we won!). There was nearly violence over it as he was 'asked' to shut up and whilst I am loathe to see this happening the kind of things he was saying had no place on a family terrace either.

	01-12-2003 14:57									#440
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon That's the one on SBS a little after the soccer? Missed it last night, sadly, but I've been watching it for the past few weeks. I've garnered the impression that it seems to be going out of its way to emphasize that his achievements were more by good fortune than by good management - not something I agree with altogether - but its still interesting viewing.

That's the one. The one you missed was where he basically lost, Paris fell and he was sent to Elba Island. Waterloo and his exile is the last one.

Yeah, things do seem a bit random in places, but I'm sure that's more because of the time restraint and things just popping out of nowhere makes better (and quicker) viewing than planning. It's funny really, despite being 8 episodes it's so vague - big for a historical mini series but for Napoleon it's way too short. From both watching that and a book I'm reading (which is purposely trying to be even handed) he really isn't the warmonger he's made up to be, the other European powers were pretty bad.

What really makes me like it is the quality of the acting - I'm not used to good actors in these kinds of history shows - Christian Clavier, Isabella Rosselina, Depardieu, Malkovich - what the hell?

	01-12-2003 15:22									#441
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quote: I've denounced him here before, have I? Boorish twayt.

You have indeed – and you seem to have him summed up nicely.

quote: He had his fun. I'm amazed anyone took it seriously

Words in print again – it has no sense of tone or inflection does it? He needed smilies

quote: Oldie but a goodie. A bit like the line about the singer - insert any appalling country singer - who put the (you know what) back into country music.

quote: The unfortunate thing is that I recall absolutely nothing about the show apart from Alexi's MCing, which was, um, colourful.

Rik will never grow up – even a near death accident on his motor bike did not help him mature visibly.

Back then they were real young rebels in the Comic strip – most are now thoroughly establishment – Edmondson, Saunders and French are all running TV production outfits – Rik Mayall made adverts for Nintendo for gawds sake.

Richardson on the other hand is as rebelious as ever - and therefore hardly seen on TV now.

There’s always going to be trouble with Poms who get hold of Photoshop guys. Leave the high ground to me.

	01-12-2003 15:24									#442
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Rogers was absolutely the right choice for full back. His boot was key to keeping Australia in the game. Roff, when he came on, was pretty anonymous I thought. So another good call by me saying he should have started.

He yet remains one of my favourite players. He could possibly play for the next one but I'm sure you guys would agree that it's not likely.

quote: Originally posted by Havak The Six nations trophy went into it in March – the Cook Cup returned to it in June after a holiday in Oz with us. The hinges have never worked so hard!!

Of course, of course! (I almost edited that post) But I was talking generally about England, sometimes it just seems you guys have nothing but bad luck. England really needed that - and obviously not only rugby followers were rejoicing, though fickle fans they be

The other thing, which has little consequence to people like us who live the game, Jonny has proven fullstop his team's usual style of game (70 out, 60 out, 50 out....kick it!!!) is hardly boring. What do you think fellas, will we see a trend as other teams change accordingly to bring about the;

Golden Age of the Drop Goal!!

Or am I talking bilge as usual?

	01-12-2003 17:01									#443
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Actually I like a little 'room for interpretation' myself. IMHO there can be a world of difference between an intentional and a non-intentional foul.

There is, by definition. An intentional foul will be penalised, and, if it's deemed foul play, the player can be carded, charged, et al. An unintentional foul will be penalised, and that's it.

quote: More to the point I think you want to allow leeway for the seriousness of the victimised players injuries too.

I'm not sure that the ramifications should enter into it.

quote: An accidental trip leading to a broken ankle might only warrant a couple of matches on the bench whereas tripping with intent should probably keep the guilty party out for as long as the injury took to heal.

But a player isn't going to be charged for an accidental trip. A penalty would be given and that's that, regardless of the ramifications. A deliberate trip, OTOH, like the French winger perpetrated -v- England, would be a different matter. And was.

quote: Besides which, a seven match suspension is still pretty harsh reduced from ten. Look at all of those AFL players throwing forearms, punches and such, who might miss a couple of matches for something particularly vicious. If they get lucky they're only out for a week.

Yes, a sentence reduction from ten to seven weeks remains a strong penalty. That was my point. It seems to contradict the hoo-haa spoken about deliberate and reckless.

The AFL tribunal is famous for its inconsistency.

	01-12-2003 17:13									#444
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Thanks for pointing out the result Finbar.

I just happened to stumble across the result. And the odd detail about the oppo losing a player to a red card. And the means to increase the size of the text in a post. And the means to post text in bold. Call it a fortuitous collection of discoveries.

quote: To the extent that Austin at fullback was the most threatening back by a long way.

Big alarm bells. Rotheram must be giggling up their sleeves.

quote: Dean Richards take on it - the RWC lads returning "disrupted training and affected our preperation".

That's up there with Steve Larkham's excuse for losing to Ireland last November - they'd changed some of the backline calls and weren't up to speed on them.

quote: That one left me speechless Finbar - maybe Denial is just a river in Africa after all?

The thing that puzzles me is whether or not the utterers of these lame excuses actually believe them.

quote: By the way Woods stamped deliberately on a players head - shall we see how the RFU treat their favourites Bath on this?

Spoken like a true supporter of a once mighty team now fallen on hard times.

quote: drunken Welsh bath fan

What a fascination juxtaposition of words.

	01-12-2003 17:16									#445
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quote: Originally posted by NeoStar What really makes me like it is the quality of the acting - I'm not used to good actors in these kinds of history shows - Christian Clavier, Isabella Rosselina, Depardieu, Malkovich - what the hell?

It's called having a big budget.

	01-12-2003 17:25									#446
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Back then they were real young rebels in the Comic strip – most are now thoroughly establishment – Edmondson, Saunders and French are all running TV production outfits – Rik Mayall made adverts for Nintendo for gawds sake.

And, just to complete the circle, you're working in I.T.

quote: Richardson on the other hand is as rebelious as ever - and therefore hardly seen on TV now.

Yes, he directed them in a couple of short films for TV a few - gee, maybe even ten - years ago. I've got a couple of very good books tracing the development of English broadcast and performance humour from the mid-60s onwards, harking back to Cleese and Chapman (pre-Python) and Tim Brook Taylor doing "I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again" on radio, all the way through the Comic Strip people and up, from memory, to people like Eddie Izzard. Fascinating stuff.

	01-12-2003 18:29									#447
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Despite having every digital TV channel available here through cable I only managed to see the last 5 min of regular time and the OT of the final. ****

England didnt seem as dominant as I would have expected given their no1 ranking.

	01-12-2003 20:10									#448
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quote: But I was talking generally about England, sometimes it just seems you guys have nothing but bad luck. England really needed that - and obviously not only rugby followers were rejoicing, though fickle fans they be

Most will crawl back into the woodwork in a few months – but if a few get and stay involved with the game then the RWC win will have worked wonders.

Are we unlucky – I can’t answer for other sports but in rugby our bad luck has normally been self created.

quote: Call it a fortuitous collection of discoveries.

Let’s just call it ‘keeping Havak grounded’?

quote: Big alarm bells. Rotheram must be giggling up their sleeves.

I’ll start to really worry when they score a point.

quote: The thing that puzzles me is whether or not the utterers of these lame excuses actually believe them.

I think he does unfortunately. I almost see what he was trying to say – he wanted the RWC players back in Tigers patterns of play before Stade Francais this weekend – but it was wrong to say the inclusion of them disrupted us – our backs would have been woeful regardless. It’s interesting you know but this slow decline in our backs has been traced back to Pat Howard going – we just clung onto league and European crown in Kafers first year then things got really bad in his second – and now under this club guy Andy Key the backs have become non-entities.

I don’t know if Pat made the difference (he inherited the backs as a very good outfit from Joel Stransky whom I still rate the best fly half we have had in the last decade) but it is a fact with him gone they have become very poor indeed.

Deano has been a hero but he is now a man under huge pressure. If we suffer a huge reverse to the French on Saturday then fail to impress against the Welsh and Italian outfits I think the pressure for him to resign will become almost irresistible.

quote: Spoken like a true supporter of a once mighty team now fallen on hard times.

It’s Bath. Were we still sweeping all before us I would just as cynical on this one.

quote: What a fascination juxtaposition of words.

Welsh Bath Drunken Fan?

quote: And, just to complete the circle, you're working in I.T.

Indeed but at least my principles are consistent with those of my younger self.

Pre-Python to Izzard is some scope. So tell me – did ‘alternative’ comedians really change broadcast humour significantly? Most have been in formulaic sitcoms in the 90s.

quote: England didnt seem as dominant as I would have expected given their no1 ranking.

To paraphrase dear old Bob Dwyer from his Tigers days we were dominant in every phase of the game except the scoreboard.

	01-12-2003 20:40									#449
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Speaking of which, I notice Rik Mayall has a new TV series in which his character is called Cnut.

Is it any good? What's it called?

	02-12-2003 04:03									#450
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Let’s just call it ‘keeping Havak grounded’?

I prefer to think of it as kicking him when he's down. The WRC, of course, being meaningless alongside Leicester's travails.

quote: Deano has been a hero but he is now a man under huge pressure. If we suffer a huge reverse to the French on Saturday then fail to impress against the Welsh and Italian outfits I think the pressure for him to resign will become almost irresistible.

I hereby offer you Graham Henry's services. Anything to keep him out of the ABs' chair!

quote: Welsh Bath Drunken Fan?

Yes, the first three words constitute outrageous tautology, I'd've thought.

quote: Pre-Python to Izzard is some scope. So tell me – did ‘alternative’ comedians really change broadcast humour significantly? Most have been in formulaic sitcoms in the 90s.

That's the point. The mass medium that is television, for example, doesn't encourage the alternative. The numbers are in safety. Even though it's pre-"alternative", Python was revolutionary - for television, with Milligan and the Goons having truly broken the ground on radio. Of the "alternatives", "The Young Ones" is probably the only successful transition. And, unfortunately, Rik Mayall has never developed beyond it. Some of Alexi Sayle's early TV work was interesting too. There were even interesting elements in the very early "Ab Fab", but they quickly suffocated. Added to which, of course, all those young "alternatives" are now in comfy middle age. The fires usually, eventually, burn out. Except mine, of course. The older I get, the angrier I get!

Edit. It just occurred to me. I wonder whether Mr is getting er as he gets older or whether he just likes the colour. I also wonder whether his ongoing absence is because, having seen the Napoleon series that NeoStar is talking about, he's off writing and directing his own version. In which Napoleon wins Waterloo, takes Russia, subdivides Elba and covers it with holiday villas.

quote: To paraphrase dear old Bob Dwyer from his Tigers days we were dominant in every phase of the game except the scoreboard.

Dear old Bob, who handed over the Waratahs' coaching reins to Ewen McKenzie yesterday, retiring to head the Waratahs' version of an Academy. Great move.