05-11-2003 19:33									#1
	Rugby World Cup 2003 - Finals! Tired of ads?

I couldn't come up with a decent title this time guys...sorry. If suggestions were made in the last thread I wouldn't have been able to look at them anyway.

Carry on...



Old Thread

	05-11-2003 21:18									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Monty's desert and sicily campaigns were pitiful and the few successes can be attributed to the quality of the british troops rather than the quality of their generals (the better ones were dismissed for political reasons), curiously enough, operation Market Garden was not a bad idea... but it was a real blunder because of its implementation... and who was in charge?

	05-11-2003 21:25									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Finbar The knob who flew home to be at the birth of his child? What is it with rugby players these days all turning into namby pambys? Half the Wallaby team flew home and back from the last NH tour to see curtain clingers born! Why can't they just take a video of some kid's birth and distribute it? See one placenta, you've seen them all! I mean, can't Corry count? Or didn't he think he'd make the World Cup squad? If he thought he was a chance, he should've applied a cold spoon to the bloody thing! Still, at least they induced his kid. So it will go through life knowing it's exactly as old as it is thanks to a rugby tournament. Serves the brat right.

Quite right. My father was out playing rugby (for a county side I think) when I was being born. I made the mistake of being present at my childrens births. After it all, I'd suggest that playing rugby is easier than being there.

	06-11-2003 04:34									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Quite right. We have played very poorly under pressure – and won every game.

As did the All Blacks. And they won too. But the interesting thing about the two England misfires is the totally different means by which they started out - the Boks overpowered you, and the Samoans ran around and past you. Just to save time, the Welsh did a bit of both to the ABs.

quote: But the worst General in history? Surely any one of Napoleans boys sent scurrying by Wellington? Or even his brother – the man he tried to make King of Spain?

I suspect Tamerlin would vote for Dimitri Yachvili as the worst General. Of the onfield variety anyway.

quote: Neil Backs web site has photo’s proving he and Jonno had a time before ‘Worn Leather lived in face’ became the main feature – for your sake I’ll not link to them here.

I'll go and have a look for myself. I assume Mr Back's URL is www.unboundatthebackofthemaul.com?

quote: Nigel Williams pinged Uruguay for advancing too quickly at the restart once against England – and Uruguay certainly infringed afterwards (we had no more restarts after that call but were no doubt guilty before it) so could that be the game?

That was it. And it not only happened consistently in that game, it happens consistently in every game! Sometimes, at the kick off, the ref will say something to the runners, but after that it's on for young and old.

On Wallaby selection matters, poor old Eddie is going to end up severely paranoid. Having installed Tuquiri and Mortlock, he is now, predictably, getting it heavily in the neck for benching Roff instead of Sailor. Just as he's being criticised for keeping the same pack, despite having slagged their efforts against Ireland. In his defence, though, we don't have anyone better than the incumbents, so why bother changing them?

Even Brian O'Driscoll, who seems to have a word for every occasion, has hopped into Eddie, wondering why it has taken him so long to play Mortlock. He expressed amazement that he was playing on Burke instead of Mortlock in the centres on the weekend, calling Burke a great full back playing out of position in the centres.

Oh, and there's a fairly silly article in this morning's press by Paul Hayward, reprinted from the Telegraph (over there), attempting to analyse why the England team is despised. Unfortunately, on the whole, he places too much store in a couple of Australian sub-editors who, probably because they're either drunk or stupid or even both, delight in creating provocative headlines. Along the way, he also cites Toutai Kefu and his red-coat line, when Kefu was blatantly obviously taking the p*ss. He then, in the interests of his own impartiality, quotes an Englishman writing on the SMH's rugby forum, slagging Australians to the hilt as utterly lacking in class. That post to the SMH rugby forum has been doing the rounds. Unfortunately, Hayward missed the tag to the Englishman's bucket of bile - that he was taking the p*ss.

Anyway, the most interesting paragraph of the article was an attempt to explain the Australian antipathy towards England rugby. And he lays the blame squarely with you, Havak:

quote: The Pom-haters see middle-aged, middle-class Englishmen drinking pints and singing "Sweet Low, Sweet Chariot" ...

Edit. Oh, and up to the end of our last thread - Rugby Widows Weep - we have, between us, accumulated 6,483 posts since we started our dedicated rugby threads. I hope we're all incredibly ashamed of ourselves.

	06-11-2003 04:38									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Quite right. My father was out playing rugby (for a county side I think) when I was being born. I made the mistake of being present at my childrens births. After it all, I'd suggest that playing rugby is easier than being there.

I can certainly imagine that lying at the bottom of a ruck being pulverised by half a dozen pairs of size 18 boots could, in this case, be an appealing alternative.

	06-11-2003 05:03									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Do you remember what said the head of the government in exile after the Operation Market Garden was deemed a success by the culprit: "Netherlands can not afford itself another victory of Montgomery?"

Interesting. That's probably the first time I've heard the words "Market Garden" and "success" mentioned in the same sentence. Well, without the word "not" in the mix somewhere anyway.
I suppose thats what you get when you tailor an operation against "old men on bicycles".

quote: Originally posted by finbar On Wallaby selection matters, poor old Eddie is going to end up severely paranoid. Having installed Tuquiri and Mortlock, he is now, predictably, getting it heavily in the neck for benching Roff instead of Sailor. Just as he's being criticised for keeping the same pack, despite having slagged their efforts against Ireland. In his defence, though, we don't have anyone better than the incumbents, so why bother changing them?

Over here they were playing up some sort of underhanded angle in the 'premature' release of the starting lineup.
Apparently Eddie was of the opinion that somebody was trying to undermine his position and itterated that he "had his suspects".
Apparently the media thought inspector Clouseau would make a more qualified investigator and didn't really think that the stated motive would narrow down the field very much.

I have no idea whether there's any truth to any of it but it was rather entertaining all the same.

	06-11-2003 05:08									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by finbar I suspect Tamerlin would vote for Dimitri Yachvili as the worst General. Of the onfield variety anyway.

He is no more than a Corporal... though of the worst kind I agree.

quote: I'll go and have a look for myself. I assume Mr Back's URL is www.unboundatthebackofthemaul.com?

Oh and by the way, even your journalists should know the song starts with "Swing low..."

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Comin' for to carry me home!
I looked over Jordan and what did I see,
Comin' for to carry me home!
A band of angels comin' after me,
Comin' for to carry me home!

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Comin' for to carry me home!

If you get there before I do,
Comin' for to carry me home,
Jess tell my friends that I'm comin' too,
Comin' for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Comin' for to carry me home!

I'm sometimes up and sometimes down,
Comin' for to carry me home,
But still my soul feels heavenly bound
Comin' for to carry me home!

	06-11-2003 05:29									#8
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by ravagon Over here they were playing up some sort of underhanded angle in the 'premature' release of the starting lineup. Apparently Eddie was of the opinion that somebody was trying to undermine his position and itterated that he "had his suspects". Apparently the media thought inspector Clouseau would make a more qualified investigator and didn't really think that the stated motive would narrow down the field very much. I have no idea whether there's any truth to any of it but it was rather entertaining all the same.

I think the reference was to the Sydney Daily Telegraph being leaked the team. I don't know, I don't read the rag, but there was nothing more than speculation in the SMH.

Eddie's under real pressure. As he was always going to be, regardless. It's part and parcel of coaching the host team. But he's done nothing to help himself with his methods and attitudes. For example, persisting with Matt Burke in the centres - heaping huge praise on him only last week when justifiying his inclusion in front of Mortlock - only to drop him from the 22 this week. The bottom line being, simply, that the pressure is getting to Eddie.

EDIT. The leak was to The Australian, another Murdoch rag I don't read. As for any suggestion that it was an attempt to undermine Eddie - it was only the latest in a long line of leaks, extending back to the naming of the 30-man Cup squad in the paper before it was released by team management. The full teams for every match in the tournament thus far were also leaked. I'm not altogether sure how that all constitutes an attempt to undermine Eddie.

	06-11-2003 05:33									#9
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin He is no more than a Corporal... though of the worst kind I agree.

You've promoted him from Cannon Fodder to Corporal? How generous of you!

quote: Oh and by the way, even your journalists should know the song starts with "Swing low..."

Yes, sorry. That was my typo. I'm in a bit of a tizz waiting for my Petit Ophrys to get here so I can fight you on level terms!

	06-11-2003 05:58									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes: "Les filles, c'est que des emmerdes!"

	06-11-2003 06:22									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Mmmmm. The verb emmerder translates as to bug or to bother. There's a reflexive version which translates as to be bored stiff.

Where's my Petit Ophrys!

	06-11-2003 06:53									#12
	Remove this text

Not far from the real sense, but not quite!



I could also speak about the "gonzesses"...

	06-11-2003 06:56									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Okay, without reference to my Petit Ophrys which I haven't received yet! - how about this for a rough idiomatic translation:

"Girls, what a pain in the arse!"

	06-11-2003 07:05									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by finbar I can certainly imagine that lying at the bottom of a ruck being pulverised by half a dozen pairs of size 18 boots could, in this case, be an appealing alternative.

Last time it happened to me they were only size twelves since I was still in school.

	06-11-2003 13:43									#15
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by finbar Okay, without reference to my Petit Ophrys which I haven't received yet! - how about this for a rough idiomatic translation: "Girls, what a pain in the arse!"

You have caught the spirit, but I would not translate it like that... all hail le petit ophrys!

	06-11-2003 14:11									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: operation Market Garden was not a bad idea... but it was a real blunder because of its implementation... and who was in charge?

Personally I would still be looking to blame the Oxymorons (Military Intelligence) who simply dismissed all the data showing that the 2nd SS Panzer Corp had been located to the area. More their fault than Monty’s I suspect.

Having said that the quality of our officers has been poor for centuries – and remains poor. Far too hung up in the class system still – like the rest of the country.

quote: But the interesting thing about the two England misfires is the totally different means by which they started out - the Boks overpowered you, and the Samoans ran around and past you

The most interesting thing about both games to me Finbar is that the opponents wrong footed us in the way you described - and still could not take the win on either occasion. I prefer to take the positive out of it – much as I wish we had put on exhibition rugby against both! And you saw how tidily we tucked away those titans of the modern game Uruguay.

quote: I suspect Tamerlin would vote for Dimitri Yachvili as the worst General. Of the onfield variety anyway.

Good point. Andydog might argue Thorne needs consideration?

quote: Sometimes, at the kick off, the ref will say something to the runners, but after that it's on for young and old.

Just out of interest have you noticed the ‘hot’ issues for refs this tournament – the ‘gate’ and ‘tunnel’ have relaxed somewhat – but binding at the scrum and straightness of throws seem to be being carefully scrutinised?

quote: He expressed amazement that he was playing on Burke instead of Mortlock in the centres on the weekend, calling Burke a great full back playing out of position in the centres.

Surely you are not surprised an Irishman is prepared to speak freely?

BODs a great lad – never quite lived up to the potential he showed on the Lions tour to be honest.

quote: Along the way, he also cites Toutai Kefu and his red-coat line, when Kefu was blatantly obviously taking the p*ss

The problem with both this and the Englishman’s forum foray is that you cannot always read intonation in text – god knows we see enough examples of that right here.

What is to analyse anyway Finbar – outside of sport I found your countrymen open and friendly even in the dog roughest bars we went into. Sure you have to be able to give and take banter but any self respecting rugger fan can cope with that.
My only problems came around the games as the ‘flag waving at any cost’ minority simply don’t get the spirit of rugby. And I would still happily strangle anyone who says “Go Wallabies” eighty times a game and nothing else.

Middle aged – there’s a point there. Middle class? I wonder in Hayward understands the meaning of that? Anyone who has to work in order to live is not middle class. And drinking pints – anyone drinking pints out there will be singing “what’s this muck” rather than Swing low.

By the way the operatic nonsense has slaughtered the anthems don’t you think? It’s certainly castrated the French anthem’s emotion and has also achieved something I thought impossible – made ours sound even worse than normal.

Also – expect to hear the Welsh whistle if and when Swing low strikes up. If a Welsh rugby fan is ever going to be so unsporting it is going to be with us – I’ve heard all the other home nations whistle through it (though they want blood should we do the same to their songs of course).

The Neil Back URL was not lost on me – I just thought I’d make you wait before I acknowledged it.

You can find some old images of him with tigers right about here

The piccie of the top left - the fresh faced skinny kid with D on his shirt and his back to the camera - care to guess who that is?

	06-11-2003 15:08									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin all hail le petit ophrys!

Your time will come!

	06-11-2003 15:15									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

Heh Finbar - McCrae is already in trouble! He got involved in a punch up with Shane Drahm in the Northampton-Gloucester fixture last weekend and is up before an RFU displinary panel next Tuesday.

The incident flared up into a mass XXX man brawl so I guess Duncan is really going to help Gloucester's already poor displinary record then?

	06-11-2003 15:22									#19
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Havak The most interesting thing about both games to me Finbar is that the opponents wrong footed us in the way you described - and still could not take the win on either occasion.

True. The South African effort was much better. You were lucky the Samoans ran out of puff.

quote: Just out of interest have you noticed the ‘hot’ issues for refs this tournament – the ‘gate’ and ‘tunnel’ have relaxed somewhat – but binding at the scrum and straightness of throws seem to be being carefully scrutinised?

The "gate" is being policed, I think, but the "tunnel" occupies some refs more than others. Just as, I think, some are worrying about straight throws more than others. But they're all jumping on tacklers and other defenders getting in the way at the breakdown

quote: BODs a great lad – never quite lived up to the potential he showed on the Lions tour to be honest.

He started slowly in this tournament but he showed his class against us. Hopefully he will turn it on on the weekend. Top quality player. Can do just about everything.

quote: The problem with both this and the Englishman’s forum foray is that you cannot always read intonation in text – god knows we see enough examples of that right here.

Yes, one day I'll make a terrible mistake and not take Mr seriously.

quote: My only problems came around the games as the ‘flag waving at any cost’ minority simply don’t get the spirit of rugby. And I would still happily strangle anyone who says “Go Wallabies” eighty times a game and nothing else.

You have your share of idiots too. In fact, you have more. They're called s***** fans!

quote: By the way the operatic nonsense has slaughtered the anthems don’t you think? It’s certainly castrated the French anthem’s emotion and has also achieved something I thought impossible – made ours sound even worse than normal.

I think it has suited some anthems more than others. But, yes, they've totally castrated La Marseillaise. Greatest anthem going around, IMHO.

quote: You can find some old images of him with tigers right about here The piccie of the top left - the fresh faced skinny kid with D on his shirt and his back to the camera - care to guess who that is?

And we know what the D stands for. Presumably they couldn't fit the whole eight letter word on the back of the jersey.

	06-11-2003 15:24									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Havak Heh Finbar - McCrae is already in trouble! He got involved in a punch up with Shane Drahm in the Northampton-Gloucester fixture last weekend and is up before an RFU displinary panel next Tuesday.

Well, Drahm is a Queenslander. Would you expect otherwise?

	06-11-2003 20:08									#21
	Put an end to popups!

quote: The South African effort was much better. You were lucky the Samoans ran out of puff.

I’m very grateful fitness won out believe me. Lets see how they fare against Wales to see if they have learned lessons.

quote: But they're all jumping on tacklers and other defenders getting in the way at the breakdown

That’s a some more than others job too from what I have seen.

quote: He started slowly in this tournament but he showed his class against us. Hopefully he will turn it on on the weekend. Top quality player. Can do just about everything.

Oh he is a talent all right – almost unstoppable at times. But he seems to be the head of the team in the way Woodsy is the heart and if he is having an off day they seem stifled of creativity (without Murphy there doubly so).

quote: You have your share of idiots too. In fact, you have more. They're called s***** fans!

Absolutely no argument here. I avoid them myself. Fortunately, whilst Tigers may be having a bad year on the pitch the fixtures have been successfully staggered with the local soccer club this season so only one of us it at home any given day - the bars in the city are therefore a pleasant place to be on rugby match days but when City are at home it’s a little different...

quote: Greatest anthem going around, IMHO.

Best national anthem I agree – but as a rugger anthem give me ‘Irelands Call’.

quote: And we know what the D stands for

It’s the direct equivalent of number 4 and sometimes translated as “best lock ever” but beyond that I’m sure I don’t know what you mean?

quote: Well, Drahm is a Queenslander. Would you expect otherwise?

Assuming Duncan is an NSW boy rather than simply having played there then not really no.

	07-11-2003 01:58									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Havak Just out of interest have you noticed the ‘hot’ issues for refs this tournament – the ‘gate’ and ‘tunnel’ have relaxed somewhat – but binding at the scrum and straightness of throws seem to be being carefully scrutinised?

I have seen too many throws that were not straight and far too many knock ons that both went unpunished to be satisfied with the referees in this world cup.

IMO the worst is yet to come as I think we are about to witness some pathetic attempts at refereeing the scrums and rucks in the games to come.

quote: By the way the operatic nonsense has slaughtered the anthems don’t you think? It’s certainly castrated the French anthem’s emotion and has also achieved something I thought impossible – made ours sound even worse than normal.

It is ridiculous, they are slaughtering the various anthems to the point I turn off the sound (especially the Marseillaise) when I usually listen carefully to the crowd singing its anthem. Give us back the brass band!

quote: Yes, one day I'll make a terrible mistake and not take Mr seriously.

"Ils sont tous devenus jobards!"

just in case you would have received your petit ophrys.

quote: I think it has suited some anthems more than others. But, yes, they've totally castrated La Marseillaise. Greatest anthem going around, IMHO.

I guess the next step is the operatic haka.

quote: Best national anthem I agree – but as a rugger anthem give me ‘Irelands Call’.

Though I really like this anthem I can't agree with you on this ground.

	07-11-2003 06:10									#23
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Havak Oh he is a talent all right – almost unstoppable at times. But he seems to be the head of the team in the way Woodsy is the heart and if he is having an off day they seem stifled of creativity (without Murphy there doubly so).

I suppose that's the problem when a team has only a handful of players of real class. They carry a burden.

quote: Assuming Duncan is an NSW boy rather than simply having played there then not really no.

Yes, he's a NSW lad. Oh, and I've just realised what obviously lies behind his madness - he played about 5 seasons of L*****!

	07-11-2003 06:19									#24
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin IMO the worst is yet to come as I think we are about to witness some pathetic attempts at refereeing the scrums and rucks in the games to come.

Stuck in the groove again! Invest in a new tonearm!

quote: "Ils sont tous devenus jobards!" just in case you would have received your petit ophrys.

Make foin while the soleil shines!

quote: I guess the next step is the operatic haka.

Lucky they're not playing vinyl recordings and you're not in charge of the turntable! The anthems would get stuck in the groove too!

	07-11-2003 14:06									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: IMO the worst is yet to come as I think we are about to witness some pathetic attempts at refereeing the scrums and rucks in the games to come.

Welcome back Tamerlin!

quote: Give us back the brass band!

Or even the little muppet with the Banjo?

quote: I suppose that's the problem when a team has only a handful of players of real class. They carry a burden.

And cruel as it is for me to say it the Wallabies may now be struggling with this?

quote: Yes, he's a NSW lad. Oh, and I've just realised what obviously lies behind his madness - he played about 5 seasons of L*****!

It would explain a great deal.

So – are we expecting (rather than hoping for) any upsets this weekend?

	07-11-2003 14:36									#26
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Havak Welcome back Tamerlin!

Yes I am and I am not ready to revise my predictions about the SH like referees until the last game has been played. I must admit I am rather surprised the teams playing with their forwards have not been penalized as much as they were during the last year. But I fear the good old habits come back now the stakes are getting higher with the real competition starting.

:extremelywary:

quote: Or even the little muppet with the Banjo?

Even that would be better than what we are hearing...

quote: So – are we expecting (rather than hoping for) any upsets this weekend?

I don't think we should face some surprises, I must admit Ireland can beat France though I don't think it will be the case. More a feeling than anything else but I am rather confident. The Irish players have played very well against Australia but I am rather convinced they have been able to do so because of the known weaknesses of the Aussies (mauls, rucks and scrums). And IMO the French forwards are able to counter the Irish ones which means they will be less efficient.

Needless to say the French touch is far better than Australia's one and that the Irish players will not catch as many balls as they have against the Aussies.

"Ils perdent la boule, appelez la maison poulaga, faites venir le panier à salades et foutez-moi tous ces arbitres en cabane!"

Have fun with these ones Finbar!

	07-11-2003 15:00									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

I whole heartedly agree that the French forwards are better than the Irish.

The line out may be key however - O'Kelly and O'Connell both had stormers in this area last week.

	07-11-2003 16:30									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Havak And cruel as it is for me to say it the Wallabies may now be struggling with this?

Yes, I wouldn't like to be The Plank at the moment, carrying the entire squad.

In actual fact, most of our class players are over the hill to varying degrees. Our future is with Rogers, Tuquiri, Giteau, Turinui, Valentine, and the like. Most of them backs, obviously. God knows where the forwards are going to come from. Apart from, believe it or not, Manny Edmonds' younger brother, who is a young, very talented hooker.

quote: So – are we expecting (rather than hoping for) any upsets this weekend?

The only chances, I'd've thought, are the Boks and Ireland. If Les Grenouilles are serious, they should handle Ireland. If the Boks can muscle the way they muscled England, and if they don't kick the ball away and give the Howlett & Co open slather, they could cause the upset. As Jason Little said on TV tonight, the ABs are always involved in an upset somewhere or other during a RWC.

Oh, and I saw O'Driscoll interviewed tonight. Seems like a very pleasant, affable chap.

	07-11-2003 16:34									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Havak I whole heartedly agree that the French forwards are better than the Irish. The line out may be key however - O'Kelly and O'Connell both had stormers in this area last week.

As I pointed out after the match, and as Tamerlin noticed only after I'd pointed it out, their opposition was pathetic. By my count, we lost six against our throw. Les Grenouilles won't.

	07-11-2003 16:36									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin "Ils perdent la boule, appelez la maison poulaga, faites venir le panier à salades et foutez-moi tous ces arbitres en cabane!" Have fun with these ones Finbar!

:absolute utter unmitigated outrage: