06-11-2003 00:20									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka che, accept my apologies.. I'm sorry. I got too heated.

No, you got trolled.

	06-11-2003 00:20									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Shogun Gunner, no you can't go door to door.. that's why you take the warlords by the nuts and squeeze the information out. They know much more than they let us know.

I don't think I'm interested in seeing what comes out of nuts when you squeeze them.

	06-11-2003 00:22									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka BeBro, that's the plan? Ok.. sounds ok to me. I didn't know about these plans.

Well, thatīs how I understand it, it wasnīt lined out somewhere as detailled plan, but that is what I conclude when I see what is going on there. Letīs hope it is not totally bull

The problem seems to be that noone in the west wants to send huge forces to control the entire country soon because a) of the fear they could end up like the Soviets and b) because of economic/financial reasons. Financial aid is also problematic with the US having a lot to do in Iraq and Germany or France being currently not in the best economic situation.

	06-11-2003 00:27									#34
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che, I shouldn't be so easy. Well, sorry anyway. Stupid from me.. I just got upset that's all.

Shogun, you know what happens.. every man knows what happens

	06-11-2003 00:28									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Shogun, you know what happens.. every man knows what happens

True, if that starts happening, I might go for a career change and become an Afghan Warload!

	06-11-2003 00:31									#36
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How about joining the mob? I heard they always bust each others balls..

	06-11-2003 00:53									#37
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I'm not sure, but you may be busting my balls right now, Pekka!

	06-11-2003 01:02									#38
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro As far as I understand it, the current idea seems to be to get some "safe" (errm better: relatively safe) zones like Kabul, and extent them slowly with the help of the UN and ISAF forces, with US troops remaining there to go against active resistors or taleban leftovers who show up for open fights. This would hopefully bring more stabilization, it would hopefully reduce slowly the power of the warlords, and maybe then thereīs a chance of an economic change away from the drug business to a more "civil" economy. As much as I hope this would work, there is absolutely no guarantee that it really will. And even if this works, it will be a long, painful, and expensive way, which would need long-term engagement of western countries in both military aspects and in giving financial aid -- an engagement that isnīt guaranteed either.

So far Kabul and provinces around it appear stable - limited Taliban, limited local warlord influence. Bamiyan seems stable, and so is Konduz (where FRG troops are going) Pashtun provinces east of Kabul - nangahar and Konar - still have some taliban activity, but situation generally good. Khost is mainly secure, and largely under Karzai control. Most Taliban activity in southeast in Paktia, Paktika, Zabul, Kandahar and Oruzgan provinces. This is also where Afghan National Army is deployed, and warlord influence has declined.

Northeast is under control of Tagik warlords allied to Defense Minister Fahim. They are allied to Karzai, for the moment.

Worst warlord violence has been in and around Mazar i Sharif. That seems to be where the govt is making an effort now to gain control, with support of international forces (interesting article on Brit PRT a little while ago) Progress mixed - still violence in the countryside there.

And of course Herat and neighboring provinces is still in control of warlord Ismail Khan - UN sent some guys there, still trying to convince him to turnover customs revenues to central govt.

Draft constitution has been released. Approval is next step in political reconstruction.

	06-11-2003 01:07									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka che, Yes. That's all we can do, according our laws and resources right now. We're doing 100% of what we can/are allowed. I'm sorry, if 100% if not enough. I wish we really could do much more. And all of this flies and misses the point of this whole thread anyway. So, you pay some taxes. Remember, if there is monetary aid to Afghanistan etc etc, it's from my tax money if it's from EU or some other organisations. What's your point? That you pay 50 dollars more than me? Do you even realize how stupid that sounds? Are you now some kind of hero, the saviour of Afghanistan? Why don't you stop saying we too, and get your ass to Afghanistan, I'm sure recruiters will have a look at you, and then you can say that to me. Right?

From Centcoms website

"Finland is contributing to GWOT with military means by taking part in the ISAF-operation in Kabul. Information on ISAF Coalition Partner Nations can be found at http://www.isafkabul.org/. However, information on Finnish ISAF troops is not found on this web site. Instead FIN LNT/CENTCOM has sent information on our ISAF troops directly to US CENTCOM. If you need it, I can send it to you.
Finnish humanitarian assistance and disaster relief to Afghanistan is handled by the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland and Red Cross Finland. Information on GWOT related HA might be found on http://www.formin.fi/english/ and http://www.redcross.fi/ (Finnish text only). Information on Finnish HA and disaster relief can be found on http://www.reliefweb.int/ (go to Afghanistan -> Financial Tracking -> Donor Breakdown of Contributions… -> see Finland). This web site is useful as it displays the projects and the amount of money allocated. "

	06-11-2003 01:09									#40
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lord of the mark, you're too late! che already confessed trolling

	06-11-2003 01:14									#41
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quote: Taliban was supported by US...

This is not true. The U.S. hadn't done anything in Afghanistan for several years before the Taliban was formed. Further, the nucleus of the Taliban was not the Mujahadeen that the US supported. The Mujahadeen were relative late-comers to the Taliban.

During the last 10 years, the only support that the US provided to the Taliban was in drug eradication, which was a relatively successful program.

	06-11-2003 01:15									#42
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DanS, I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing it out, I was being sloppy.