05-11-2003 23:18									#1
	Note for BETA testers Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

by Gobi (Ed Beach, Producer of BreakAway Games for Civ3 Conquests) on CFC

quote: Here is a quick rule of thumb for beta testers. I'm copying from Jeff Foley's comments today in our online chat sponsored by Apolyton. To paraphrase Jeff: "Discuss what is IN THE GAME, not what was IN THE BETA TEST." Once the game is truly out in the community (probably by the end of the week), features in the game will be out in the arena of common public knowledge and can be discussed freely. They can then no longer be considered Confidential Information in any form. This is the 'discuss what is IN THE GAME' part of things. However, if you read the NDA carefully, knowledge of business methods is part of the Confidential Information covered by the NDA. I would rule that knowledge of how the beta test was conducted or what happened in it falls into this category. Since this will never become public knowledge, it is not open to disclosure. This is the '... not what was IN THE BETA TEST' side of things. Sulla's site obviously crosses this line. Whether Atari, Firaxis, or BreakAway will act on it is unknown right now. But it will at least jeopardize his inclusion in future tests. Which is a damn shame .... he WAS one of our best contributors, no doubt.

	05-11-2003 23:22									#2
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Doh.

	05-11-2003 23:29									#3
	Remove this text

some people need to be explained everything...

	05-11-2003 23:33									#4
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Spank-ee spank-ee...

	06-11-2003 00:35									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Some people were pretty miffed about changes too.

	06-11-2003 00:48									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Some people are losing perspective that this is a game for us and a business for Atari, Firaxis and Breakaway.

	06-11-2003 01:17									#7
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I guess it's hard to choose between breaking a NDA and glorifying yourself.


Dominae

	06-11-2003 01:19									#8
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No it isn't. Someone is just being a boob.

	06-11-2003 01:33									#9
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The tone of this thread is starting to remind of the not-so-good(or downright bad) old dayz just following the release of Civ III.

	06-11-2003 01:33									#10
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Was he given clear instructions (a specific date) as to when he could begin talking about beta? Seems kind of odd that someone would be complient throughout the whole beta phase only to slip up at the very last moment...

	06-11-2003 01:38									#11
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I think one of the beta testers said the NDA specified that they could NEVER talk about the Beta, only the final product. That seems like a reasonable business practice to me.

	06-11-2003 01:48									#12
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Can anyone explain to me why this is such a big deal ?
( other then two parties agreeing to something of course which i do understand)

Does anyone really care that 5 months ago in Beta 0.2.25 the dutch UU was 1.8.1 and now it's 1.4.1 ?!

	06-11-2003 01:59									#13
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I assume it's because the designers' ideas are intellectual property, and that's very important in the gaming industry.

If I were to go to some other company and design "Civlization: Beyond Conquests" based on a bunch of ideas that I heard during testing (but that never made it into the game), you bet I would be breaking my NDA. And if I told others about the idea instead and they designed the game, I would still be breaking my NDA but they would be untouchable.


Domiane

	06-11-2003 02:00									#14
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quote: Originally posted by alva Can anyone explain to me why this is such a big deal ? ( other then two parties agreeing to something of course which i do understand) Does anyone really care that 5 months ago in Beta 0.2.25 the dutch UU was 1.8.1 and now it's 1.4.1 ?!

I believe the concern is that Sulla alludes to problems, bugs and design flaws(at least as he sees them) that he observed in the beta. Many of these hurdles may, and in fact probably have, been overcome since then.

Most people who peruse Sulla's site will be aware of this, and will allow it to affect their decision to purchase Conquests accordingly. Other, less enlightened gamers however, may decide that the beta's problems are not, will not, and cannot be fixed. This may cause them to decide not to purchase the expansion and ultimately cost Atari lost sale's dollars.

It's the reader's decision really. Time will tell--avoiding Conquests may even be the right choice. But it's a choice that should probably be based on professional and user reviews, rather than observations made on a beta.

	06-11-2003 02:31									#15
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Just in case you are wondering, Sulla's site no longer discusses the Beta Test (the details of his games using the beta versions of the game), and only includes sections regarding the finished product (or at least what he thinks is the finished product).

	06-11-2003 03:05									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Sullla has responded appropriately. I just sent him an email thanking him.

I think this matter is entirely resolved now.

	06-11-2003 03:46									#17
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Yes, but considering this comment:

quote: Sulla's site obviously crosses this line. Whether Atari, Firaxis, or BreakAway will act on it is unknown right now. But it will at least jeopardize his inclusion in future tests. Which is a damn shame .... he WAS one of our best contributors, no doubt.

I think his response probably resolves things on a legal basis (or not), but he won't ever be a beta tester for Firaxis again.