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Bereta_Eder
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noone has actually heard an ancient greek talk so we are the closest there is when it comes to pronunciation. of course ther ehave been changes during a 2,500 years history of a language (DUUUUH) but about the CORRECT way to pronounce it in classic ATTIC greek there are only educated guesses.
hower since the language evolves like a breathing living thing it is quote possible that sounds of letters that were redudnant have been eliminated or altered.
so if we take that website as an approach thjink of deutschland Uber alles to get a picture of the sound, i guess you've heard that somewhere?
also what keygen said, it's COMBINATIONS of the ypsilon which produce completely different sounds, they are correct and the same in old and modern greek.
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Bereta_Eder
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greek has nothing to do with turkish. especially in pronounciation but in general as well.
of course there are some turkish words in greek and many mor egreek words in turkish. however after the liberation there was a cleansing of the language and many turkish words were replaced by the greek onces.
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Bereta_Eder
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kai to sxisomatiko koloamerikanaki exoristo stin iaponia ton pernei asyyyystola
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Bereta_Eder
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forgot to say a funny thing en surveillant.
greek and turkish language was segregated as were the people.
however turks didnt have a knac for foreign languages and were generally a bit layed back.
so most of the diplomats of the ottoman empire were educated greeks who they could speak other foreign languages as well turkish. now i admit it wasnt very smart to put as a mediator between the ottoman empire and the rest of europe a greek but thats what was happening.
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Keygen
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Athens, Hellas
Jan 2000
time: 07:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Andy-Man
most of that is modern greek... (alpha upsilon sounding like 'f'!!! in attic is would sound like out
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Actually the basic pronouncing of letters and words haven't change at all from Antiquity to Modern age.
Perhaps my English knowledge isn't much sophisticated and can't think of the actual correspondence of Greek letters to the English ones - if any - for all letters but " AY " would not sound like out for sure. There were lot of dialects in Ancient Greece but from Classic age and after the preferable dialect for writers was Attic.
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Keygen
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Athens, Hellas
Jan 2000
time: 07:31
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
of course there are some turkish words in greek and many mor egreek words in turkish.
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Still, they were and they are Turkish and not Greek despite the fact that they were - and some still are - spoken in Greece.
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axi
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Athens Greece
Sep 1999
time: 07:31
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quote:
If " E " precedes (EY) it depends on what consonant follows the two vowels. Most of the times is pronounced like an " f " a bit longer though (or what ever is the grammatical terminology). If " B " follows it sounds more like " ev ". |
To make it precise, EY and AY are pronounced "eph" and "aph" only if they precede theta, kappa, ksi, pi, tau, chi, psi. All other consonants and all vowels turn them into "ev' and "av".
If an accent is applied to the first vowel or if the ¨ are used on the second vowel, the combination is broken and the two vowels are spelled separately.
In modern greek, iota, eta, ypsilon, omikron-iota, epsilon-iota are pronounced the same and the correct spelling is derived out of context. The latest grammatical rules tend to change alot of eta's and ypsilon's into iotas for simplicity. In ancient greek, as there are 3 kinds of accents and 3 kinds of hyphens, discrimination between those is crucial.
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Bereta_Eder
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Also the accents were a product of the hellenistic era: Alexander the Great introduced them to help the conquered people speak and pronounce Greek correctly. In Ancient Greek marble placks there are no accents and the letters are all capitals and there is no separation (space) between the words.
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Bereta_Eder
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Greek is a fascinating and mindbonlgly! rich language. It is one if not THE richest langauge in the world. To read Greek is taking a mythical voyage to the source of meaning. Almost every word has roots descending to the original noematic essence of what it describes and most of the time what it describes is multidimensional. Greek language does wonders to describing abstract and apheretic thought. As a side note around 80% of the english verb and object vocabulary derives from Greek through Latin and French. Even the english word "love" has its roots in Greek.
love, ëáôéíéêü:love åê ôïõ ''ëÜFù'' ôï äéãáììá F ðïõ åßíáé êáíïíéêá ôï åêôï ãñáììá ôïõ Åëëçíéêïý áëöáâÞôïõ ãéíåôáé áõ óçìáßíåé ''èÝëù ðïëý''
Love, latin: love from laFw the diggama F which is regularly he 6th letter of the Greek alphabet becomes AY which means " I want very much" (necessairily crude translation).
To know Greek is to understand the essence of what you say and where what you talk about comes from.
Reccomended if a bit difficult.
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Bereta_Eder
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Here's something that might be of interest.
quote:
It's all Greek to him
Athanasios Anagnostopoulos is compiling the biggest-ever compendium of the Greek language, with the aim of producing a work to match the Oxford English Dictionary, writes Helena Smith
Helena Smith
Friday March 1, 2002
The Guardian
In the shadow of the Acropolis, alongside the theatre where the likes of Aeschylus and Sophocles and other ancient playwrights first put on their shows, Athanasios Anagnostopoulos is hard at work.
With his erudite demeanour and wild, wavy white hair, this kindly linguist looks every bit like a modern-day Plato - a fitting resemblance for a man who has set himself the monumental task of compiling the biggest-ever compendium of the Greek language, from before Homeric times until today. In a linguistic odyssey that has taken him back over 3,000 years he has collected more than 50m words.
"Greek may be Europe's oldest continuously spoken language, and the language that gave birth to letters that signified vowels, but it is also surprisingly poorly researched," he says in his neoclassical offices at the foot of Athens' holy hill.
A surprising amount of English words - some 80% - derive from the 24-letter Greek alphabet. But, he explains, "tens of thousands of Greek words" have gone through different stages and acquired different meanings, which in part accounts for the language's supple syntax and extraordinarily rich vocabulary.
"Our goal, now, is to trace the evolution of every single Greek word from its first appearance in a written text, say in the 4th century BC, to the present."
The giant database that he has set out to create - electronically recording the entire corpus of every Greek writer on CD Rom - will not only chart the unbroken continuity of spoken and written Greek but, he says, enhance global understanding of the language's historical course.
In so doing, it will go a long way towards preserving the record of a history that helped form western civilization. |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3...-105806,00.html
I would just add that there already are a plethora of very good dictionaries both from abroad as well as Greek who do this job but another one certaintly cannot hurt. Good luck and bon courage to him I say  
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The Andy-Man
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Tory Party of 'Poly
Jul 2001
time: 05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Zopperoni
I thought it was: al-pha, del-ta, and e-psi-lon?
But maybe my Attic Greek has sunk to basement level. More than five years have passed since I last read something Greek. |
but the phi and psi are double consonants, ie, they are 2 letters.
alp-ha, not, alfa
As for pronunciation, it will have changed drasticly of course, but the educated guesses, imo, seem quite good. And i am a bit of a purist, so no 'f's for me 
I have found a few good sites on this actually, its got me into linguistics a bit 
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Bereta_Eder
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Actually alfa not al-pha. The mistake you may be doing is trying to interpret the language based on your current phonetic background that you have available. This could lead to wrong conclusions.
Let me demonstrate:
you say that psi is a double consonant. In Greek it is one and the same. If you want to break it apart phonetically then of course it is constituted by two consonants "p" and "s". However in the Greek language it is considered one.To understand: in the latin language so is "d" which is comprised from "n" and "t" (which actually comes from delta) ) but you don't separe it. To do that you must put an n in front of ti like so "nd" in which the phoenetic separation is achieved.
As for phi, this is one. Ö in Greek and can't be seprated phonetically either.
It's better to think completely Greek, if you can, when trying to take apart/put the language under a microscope.
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Bereta_Eder
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About how "fat" the F was pronounced in ancient Greece I'm afraid none of us know. You only have us pronouncing it the way we do. However bare in mind that in english you have two ways of writing that sound. "Ph" and "f". In Greek there is only one way of writing it "Ö" and has been the same in the last 3 millenia. Same goes for the theta.
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06-11-2003 05:20
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