06-11-2003 02:59									#1
	Having big problems with Emp Got spare money?

Ok, I've finally moved on to Emp lvl after feeling relatively comfortable with Monarch...

AND I CANNOT WIN!

My gaming style is pretty much a builder but one thing I've noticed is how aggressive you have to be with Emp and playing a defensive game seems pretty much impossibile.

I've been playing with the Iriquois because of the huge advantage of the mounted warrior at the beginning of the game. My strat has in general been to make my neighbor my tech ***** and keep making war against em to stay competitive with the other civs. I have run into these problems:

Because of the early point of the game, I seem to hurt the other civ too much and they don't stay tech competitive.

	06-11-2003 03:42									#2
	Suffering from ads?

Post a savegame and/or numerous screenshots.


Dominae

	06-11-2003 04:05									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Along with what Dom said, I would wonder about choosing Iroqs and then playing as a builder. I say that for two reason, they have a very early UU and they lack the traits for building well.
If use use the JW you get that early GA, this is fine if you intend to rip up some civs, but you say you do not want that.

Have you checked on the threads on playing emperor? What are your game settings? Early agressive play is not a requirement and several have posted reports on playing peacful at Emp and Deity.

I would suggest a save in the ancient ages, before the die is cast.

	06-11-2003 06:14									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

Attack early and often. You'll have cities to build in after you've used your MW to the max.

	06-11-2003 15:36									#5
	Remove this text

Couple of emperor tips :

1. don't build ancient era wonders - build a settler pump and more cities instead.
2. maximise your civs traits.
3. Get embassies and use alliances to deal with the AI's early power over you.

The aggression against your 'tech b1tch' isn't paying off - as you say you've hurst it too much. Many players use 'oscillating wars' to weaken and nibble on alternate neighbours. Apart from over-weakening your intended vassel, it looks like you've blown your rep by breaking treaties. GPT deals are therefore off the agenda, thus losing a key tool for the builder. Alternatively, take over all your neighbour quicker and without busting your rep, then build a dual-core civ and you're there.

With the right civ on the right map, defensive building amd keeping up in your own research is possible on Emperor, but you might want to be more than 'comfortable' on monarch first. I've found that getting bored with easy builder wins on Monarch is a good time to transfer this playstyle to emp, which is only really tough in the early game.

	06-11-2003 15:36									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

(duplicate post)

	07-11-2003 01:59									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I found the same at Emperor - the solution is controlled agression

Pick a neighbour, attack (with more than you would have thought necessary at Monarch), get a good peace settlement and some room to expand

Repeat with a different neighbour

Beat up your first victim again etc

This requires attacking early, building barracks and units not improvements. Usually as a builder I get an early lead in culture but this does not help at Emperor

If you play as the Iroquois, your first attack should be with archers, not holding back until you have mounted warriors as this is probably already too late to save the game

	07-11-2003 04:25									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I don't worry about tech early. At Emporer, I caught up in the late Middle Ages. At Diety, after everyone trades maps with Map Making I fall behind until the MidMiddle Ages, at Diety, It was Early Industrial[until I switched to the new rule no map trading til Navigation, now 6 scouts have given me the tech lead {with trading}]. I can still build the Spaceship first.

I've never gotten too far with the Vassal Strategy, after getting crumbs from my Vassals, I fight primarily for territory.

My first war starts ASAP. All I need is 6 archers and 1 spearman. Ususally I need 2 cities to pay for them. My science slider is at 10%, and I don't mind paying thru the nose for unit costs or the luxury slider, I'll have plenty later. Unless a city produces 2/3 of my units, I don't build a barracks because
barracks + 6 veteran archers is roughly = 8 reg archers ie breakeven is 240 shields/city.

Produce just military. Eventually your opponent will poprush his way to longterm weakness, even if he stops you, Rex and build barracks and granaries your cities. His shield production will have decreased, and you'll have a nice target. He may be so weak that you will be able to annihilate him and move on to the next war without a break.

	07-11-2003 05:40									#9
	Re: Having big problems with Emp Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

From my experience, Monarch is the last level that pure builder is fun or easy to win at. See Arrian's builder threads, although I think he may play as a warmonger at Emperor now.

Emperor is where I feel most comfortable and challenged (and where I think CivIII rules) but I think some early warmongering is in order (required) to expand on the territory, eventually taking over one or preferably two neighboring civs. Iroquois should be ideal for this. Being builder works pretty well, after you've taken over a neighbor or two.

I'm still trying to get the knack of Deity, and all I've been able to do is win in the modern era, while playing catch up in tech all the way. It's not fair why I should have to research all the tech myself! Occasionally I get a civ or two that falls behind in tech and become viable tech traders, but they usually are eliminated quickly. But, I always wind up 1st in production, GNP, etc., and so can crank out tanks like there's no tomorrow. I think I'm going back to Emperor to stay soon.

After a little practice at early warmongering, I think you'll be successful and happy with Emperor.

One of these days there will be a CivIIII... perhaps where the AI will not require production bonuses, more of a level playing field, but maybe the AI will be too good by then and they'll have to play down to us.

Last edited by Shaka II on 07-11-2003 at 05:46

	07-11-2003 12:41									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I am primarily a builder and win reasonably often as that on emperor. But a lot of time cannot be spent on building improvements early in the game, as expansion to about 20 cities early on a standard map is needed for a reasonable chance at the game.

I still tend to build a temple and library early, but use forest clearing and pop rushing to do it quickly, as I like to keep my culture competitive. Happiness will not be too much of an issue if several luxuries can be hooked up. But I never build wonders early in the game( except if a GL is created, then I may use it for a wonder, but usually it will end up as the FP or an army initially)

Last game I killed a Zulu scout about 7 turns into the game (they entered a hut on the edge of my city radius as I built my first warrior). Result was they sent a multitude of warriors at me and several archers, the defenders I had in my capital survived ( I had no attacking units), they sued for peace giving techs, and then grew extremely slowly because they had overdone the pop rushing. After I built about 6 cities I attacked and took all their major cities setting myself up for an excellent start, building the FP in there capital with a GL, and took another city and all their techs in a peace treaty.

After that I spent 150+ turns at peace building my cities, before increasing my military forces and doubling my size with further warfare, wiping out another civ in the process and taking the lead technologically.

Brief periods of expansionary war followed by long periods of peace are best.

	08-11-2003 04:10									#11
	Put an end to popups!

I play, and win, on emperor but i do not go to war early. I gennerally REX/build. The most important thing is to trade agressively. If you do not, you WILL lose. My first war comewith my UU, or when i get cavalry. I will attack earlier if the opportunity is right... You should be able to be on par with the AI with techs by industrial age. The industrial age is also when you can really start to beat the AI. The AI is very innefeciant with workers and factories, so you can seriously pass them up.
Try being an industios civ.... expantionest is a waste.