04-03-2004 12:44									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hmm. I was under the impression that Civ II worked fine under the Classic environment in 10.3 (but not 10.2 or less).

BTW, did the missile code I gave you help any (or will it down the road)?

Gatekeeper

	06-03-2004 00:18									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

It does, but the newer computers don't come with OS 9.2 preinstalled so you have to track down a copy.

That's why I want to try and figure out how to carbonize them.

The missile code will help, I just haven't had any time to use it yet.

	06-03-2004 03:24									#33
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

FlameFlash:

That's odd. Earlier in this thread I was told that Civ II works smoothly in the Classic shell used by 10.3 to run older apps. But 10.2 and lower were rougher ...

Gatekeeper

	07-03-2004 00:36									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Nope, they still run smoothly here too (in X.2)

The problem comes from the fact that the newer Macs don't have 9.2 pre-installed so the Classic shell is useless until you find a disk.

	11-03-2004 17:29									#35
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Mine battled in 10.2 but flies in 10.3.

	12-03-2004 13:41									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Good grief. I'm going to a PC ...

Let's see: 10.3 comes with a shell capable of emulating the 9.x environment, but unless you can find a copy of 9.x to install physically, the shell won't work?

Gods almighty. Yep, I'm going to a PC or sticking with my ancient iMac 333mhz.

Gatekeeper

	12-03-2004 20:01									#37
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Sorry to burst your bubble Gk...

	01-04-2004 03:30									#38
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash Nope, they still run smoothly here too (in X.2) The problem comes from the fact that the newer Macs don't have 9.2 pre-installed so the Classic shell is useless until you find a disk.

Try looking at the Software Install (Restore) disk.

One of the options is to install the Classic environment. I just don't think they do it by default.

	01-04-2004 09:28									#39
	Full PM-box? Change here!

* FlameFlash shrugs.

All I know is that I'll be digging out my ol' OS 9 disk that came with my current system when I get a new one. I still have the 9.2.2 disk images too.

	01-04-2004 12:38									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Huh. I was over at the MacCentral forums and the folks there said the Classic environment is more than enough to run older apps ... meaning you don't need the actual 9.x OS, the Classic shell is enough.

Gatekeeper

	02-04-2004 19:44									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hang on... there's a Classic 'shell' as well?

So theoretically I could uninstall OS 9 and everything would be okay?

	03-04-2004 05:16									#42
	Support Apolyton

That's the distinct impression I was left with ...

	03-04-2004 20:17									#43
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well, when/if I get a new comp, I'll try it out prior to installing OS 9

	04-04-2004 00:21									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Wouldn't it be kind of funny if, all this time, you've been installing OS9.x when it really wasn't needed?

	04-04-2004 04:24									#45
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Fortunately I haven't needed to as it just gets carried over to the next interation.

	07-04-2004 22:05									#46
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash Hang on... there's a Classic 'shell' as well? So theoretically I could uninstall OS 9 and everything would be okay?

NO!!!!

The classic shell uses OS 9. If you uninstall it Classic will not run. Newer macs cannot boot into OS 9, but if you trash the OS 9 system folder, Classic will not run.

	07-04-2004 22:48									#47
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

See, this is part of the reason I'm seriously leaning *away* from ever getting another Macintosh. If I want to piss around with an OS that's always being upgraded — and now, it seems, the MacOS has it's own security flaws, judging from recent Apple postings — and continuing questions about how the Classic shell functions, I'd rather get a cheaper PC that, at the very least, has a lot of technical support available locally and online.

Now, the newest Macs can't *boot* into OS9, but if you're running in X, and an app you have needs 9.x, the X can launch the *Classic shell* and run the app, correct?

Frickin' computers. I think we can all agree on that.

Gatekeeper

	04-05-2004 21:30									#48
	Got spare money?

Now is a really good time to get a new mac. Costs have come down and even the cheapest machines are very nice.

You don't have to worry about the Classic Mode. I don't have a screenshot (since I got rid of it), but all that happens is that OS 9 boots up within OS X. It's exactly the same OS 9 and I know for a fact that it runs Civ II and SMAC. There are a few odd things it won't run, like old (pre OS X) versions of Quark and Photoshop but it will run everything else. It looks just like OS 9 too - you get the Classic menubar superimposed over the OS X menubar when you are using the Classic app. It's idiot proof. It's not like Virtual PC or anything like that - you don't have a separate Classic window.

In short it doesn't make a difference whether or not you can boot into OS 9. Starting the Classic mode is booting into OS 9. The only functions that aren't available are things like printing - but that's because OS X handles all those - you can print from any OS 9 app and it works seamlessly.

As for security flaws, there just aren't any serious ones. There are no viruses. Someone posted a "proof of concept" for a trojan, but it has not been released into the wild for the simple reason that it can't spread itself very effectively. Other than that there are really no serious problems. Windows on the other hand is a nightmare for this sort of thing.

The Classic shell isn't "slow", it works just as well as the old OS 9 did.

	04-05-2004 21:35									#49
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you need this or that. All Macs come with Classic installed AFAIK and if they don't they will come with a disk to install the Classic Environment. You will have no trouble at all running your old games on it. It just works.

	04-05-2004 21:42									#50
	Tired of ads?

I found a pic of Classic working. As you can see it looks just like the old OS 9 because it is the old OS 9. If you were running Civ II you would see what you always see just with the OS x desktop and Dock.

If you clicked the desktop or an OS X app the only thing that would happen is that the menubar at the top would assume the OS X look. But if you selected the Classic app again it would switch back to the OS 9 menubar. It works seamlessly.

Here's a guy using his Newton software in Classic.

Attachment: osxnewtconnectedb.jpg
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).

	05-05-2004 05:22									#51
	Put an end to popups!

You still have a Newton?

	05-05-2004 06:22									#52
	Got spare money?

* Kuciwalker remembers a certain long thread a while ago concerning threadjacks of this type

	05-05-2004 06:33									#53
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The question of Classic working or not (coming preinstalled on new Macs), and CivII being in Classic should and does cause great concern here... where else should it go?

	05-05-2004 13:14									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

ARGH! I *knew* it! I *knew* it would happen!

OS X TIGER.

Augh! Another update! Probably a payable upgrade, too.

Gatekeeper

P.S. I know all the new iMacs come with Classic pre-installed, but don't you still have to pick up and install a copy of OS9.x in order for Classic to run older programs such as Civ II?

	05-05-2004 21:46									#55
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

No. Civ II will run just fine in the classic environment. The Classic Environment just is OS 9. You don't need to install it, it is already there. The only thing you can't do anymore is choose the OS 9 System Folder as your startup disk.

Say for example, I reinstalled 9 and wanted to use it to run Civ II. Because I have an older mac I could either run it in the Classic environment or select OS 9 as my startup OS and reboot the machine. In both cases the computer will use the same OS 9 system folder.

You can't do that with newer macs, but it doesn't matter since you don't need to reboot into OS 9 proper to play games. I know that Civ II and SMAC work because I played them when I still had Classic. No installation is required AFAIK and if it is, you will find that the Classic Environment is contained on the disks that come with every Macintosh.

PS. The screenshot isn't mine, just someone who still has a Newton.

	05-05-2004 23:36									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think it's finally straightened out... thanks.

(too bad, I'd like to ask how one was... have a palm myself.)

	06-05-2004 12:13									#57
	Inflate your Upload Space

Agathon, et al.:

Hmm. So I could pick up a 1.25 GH 20" LCD iMac for $2194 today, pop in the Civ II CD, load the software and then launch it without having to buy an OS9.x CD and installing the older OS itself?

Gatekeeper

	06-05-2004 22:51									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yes.

	06-05-2004 22:54									#59
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'd advise you to take your Civ II disk to the store and ask if you can try it out, just to put your mind at ease.

What will happen is that you will launch the installer, Classic will start (because the installer is a Classic app) and it will direct you to install it in the OS 9 apps folder. Once it's done you shove the Civ II icon in the Dock and Bob's your uncle.

Do try it out at the shop. They'll let you do it if you make it clear that the sale counts on it.

	25-07-2004 15:20									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

maybe it's inapropriate ... but if i'm ok to say it's good to support all strategy turn based games, as a fanatic mac user, i question myself about why such a question : "is civ2 graphically better than the windows version"
WOW !!! SUCH A QUESTION !!!

is it important ? is it the only trophee mac users argue ? the better display on our platform ??? HEY guys ! civ2 is a very good OLD game ( and mac or pc, the graphics are OLD too ! ) but where are the mac users to talk about the lack of support of civ3 add ons, the fact that we'll never see CTP2 on macintosh, how many of us can play a ctp mp game online with others guys, even pc users ( big majority around ) and where are the mac users to fight for getting stuff of all these strategy games we can't have ?

i read until my eyes getting red all threads concerning the ctp2 source code project and i saw NOT ONE macuser there ... linux and macX are both unix platforms ( even it's different ) and we still play on classic and macos9 !!!

ok : we have civ3 but thats all ... no addons, no multiplayers games for us !

i posted 2 weeks ago a simple question : are mac ctp users around ? and not yet ONE answered ...

good to argue about our better graphic display ... but SO ??? is that giving us more ? even here in the macintosh forum, where are the mac users ? is the mac spirit condamned to only remains the past ?

Last edited by blackgryffin on 25-07-2004 at 19:46