 |
| |
|
|
Yahweh Sabaoth
|
 |
The Heavens
Dec 2002
time: 05:31
|
|
WOW!
I just got Conquests yesterday. I haven't had time (thanks GF) to play a game past even entirely through the ancient era, but I can still say: WOW!
MAJOR changes are afoot, at least on Monarch level.
I'd like to make a few observations/speculations. I wouldn't say any of this is definitive, just some hunches. We'll only know the strength of each civ and each trait as time goes by and we each have the chance to play the epic game a bit more. Still, here's a few things I noticed that I think indicate that this game is almost Civ4:
Seafaring The seafarers, and to a lesser extent, the expanionists, have a major upper hand in the ancient era, and I do mean major. Sending two or more Curraghs (Carracks? forget the spelling) to scout coastlines will bring you tech upon tech upon tech long before most civs ever meet each other. Playing as the Dutch a bit, I found that of 10 other civs, only the English were on my level - almost. I was consistently 2 techs ahead of most of my neighbors - and this is with a 10% research rate. I had 6 or 7 techs that the French and Germans simply didn't have. Furthermore, I knew where everyone was MUCH more quickly than I would have known by scouting across the land and potentially getting killed by barbarians. Thanks, Atari, for putting no barbarians at sea! 
Agriculture For all you REXers out there, this is a major, major benefit. Combined with granaries (and most of the agricultural civs start with Pottery, right? That's how it seemed to me, but I didn't keep notes) you basically have an uber-settler/worker pump homeland, and you have it in no time. I've rarely done as impressive REXing as I did last night playing as the Dutch and Incas.
Tech Freedom at last! 50 turns to save gold, but without the frenetic tech race that vanilla Civ/PTW had - thanks completely to the push-backed communications trading, the fact that AI seafarers don't seem to build carracks (I didn't see any, that's for sure) and the reduced number of expanionists - it's very easy to crank your tech way up and not run a deficit once your core is down. This seems especially potent with agricultural civs and their easy REXing.
This means, in essence, you can both be the tech leader AND prepare for your massive warrior->sword upgrade. In my opinion, you can do both. I haven't tried the upgrade yet, mind you, and I know it's more expensive. But as both the Dutch and the Incas, I had a significant tech lead and more money in the bank than I'm used to having - and I've been using the 40-turn gold saving plan consistently now for at least 3 months.
Alphabet Research this at 50 turns. It's still ludicrously expensive. I don't mind though, as this fits in well with my preferred/accustomed-to strategy.
Philosophy No need on Monarch to crank up the tech rate on Writing to get here - but DO get here. One free tech just from getting philosophy first? If you're seafaring and have the basic techs out of the way, you will become the tech leader. This is golden, golden. The free tech is good for whatever you want - Literature or Map Making would be the most logical choices in my view, but who doesn't want a free tech? And it's easy to get.
The AI It might be easier to get ahead in the ancient era, but the AI seems vastly improved, as well, at least in terms of building priorities. There are a few changes worth noting:
- AI attitude: Almost all the AIs were polite towards me, on Monarch level. A few were cautious; none were ever annoyed. Of course, I didn't do as much building warriors/archers and stealing their workers last night, so maybe that's just coincidence. 
- AI build priorities: Whoa! MAJOR changes here, for sure. Solidly REXing last night as the Incas, I saw American cities near my core that I wanted to flip. So, I built 2 or 3 temples near the Americans, thinking that would do the job. Well! I was unpleasantly surprised when a size 4 city of MINE flipped to THEM. And it was near an American city whose culture hadn't expanded! Obviously, the Americans at least now have other priorities other than just blinding sending settlers off into the midst (yes, there was plenty of land still to settle).
Another oddity I observed: the Aztecs, sending workers AHEAD of a settler to PREPARE for a city! Or perhaps, to prepare for an invasion of my core. Either way, I saw Aztec workers building roads where there was no settler! Weird... this bears further investigation. Additionally, when I moved a settler into a blank square to take advantage of those newly built roads, once I built my city, the AI workers MOVED... they didn't idiotically complete the roads they were working on, as they were now in my city radius!
Volcanos These things erupt ALL THE TIME. I will not build a city near them, ever. I don't care about the 3 shields; it's not worth the cost of a whole city. Furthermore, they're all over the place! Seems like more volcanos than there are in the real world.
Tobacco I hope Warpstorm makes this look real pretty, because otherwise, it's almost pointless. OK, I rightfully deserve scorn for that comment; but it could be way more useful, given what tobacco does in RL.
Marsh ARRRGH! I love it, though. No free terrain improvements for building a city here! Has the potential to create great natural barriers...
I AM TOTALLY IN LOVE WITH THIS GAME. And I am going to have to rethink many basic strategies.
(I am going to change the names and city names of some of the civilizations... but not their traits or cultural linking. I know this is totally unimportant)
I have a feeling that a patch will be coming soon that seriously tones down seafaring, agricultural, and volcanos. That's just a hunch. If the seafarers started with a free Curragh, they would kick serious behind. I know it's expensive but I feel it could be made even more expensive.
In brief, the ancient age now seems as much about Culture and trading as it does about preparing for war. There's no mad "race to the bottom" in terms of scrambling for tech. The player CAN actually LEAD in tech. How valuable that is or not remains to be seen.
One final note. It seems as though the player is no longer notified when another civ is working on a Wonder. Is this just something in "preferences" I forgot to turn on, or is this a new feature of the game? If so, heh heh heh, cool. Adds a nice element of surprise.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Yahweh Sabaoth
|
|
The Heavens
Dec 2002
time: 05:31
|
|
Still haven't your copy yet, eh Arrian? heh heh heh... I've been copying MOST of my strategy from YOU, and I think you're in for some big surprises... I really can't stress it enough in a simple post.
Unfortunately, I'm applying to college, trying to get a raise, trying to get a new apartment AND planning to wipe 2 computers and reinstall everything, so I don't have time to develop a comprehensive strategy. But I am going to try giving building, rather than agression, a new shot.
After all, if the AI does indeed place greater emphasis on culture now - and it may be premature to say that it does; I haven't gone into the editor and looked at the build preferences - then good old religious and scientific might be as powerful as seafaring, agricultural and industrious.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
TechWins
|
 |
Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:31
|
|
There are way too many volcanoes in the game. It's not even realistic, neither fun. I haven't been effected by them yet, but by the amount of them in the game I can only guess that will be happening soon. I like the idea of having them, because it adds more strategy to the game. However, there are just far too many in the game. Not to mention that lava gets spewed all over the map. I guess I'll just have to live through it.
Besides all of that, Yahweh, have you noticed the AI still not taking notice to the volcanoes? I mean the AI still appears to build next to volcanoes without any regard. I wish the AI were able to recognize that building next to a volcanoe may not be the best idea.
I really like the marshes, though. Just another terrain of having to deal with, and they seem to appear fairly realistically, too.
Having the technology max cost incread to 50 definitely helps out. A change that I believe most mod people made in Civ3/PtW.
Also, it is an option for Wonder Initiatin Pop-Up. Check your preferences.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Yahweh Sabaoth
|
|
The Heavens
Dec 2002
time: 05:31
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Catt
For my initial test game, I selected "middle" world features on everything (continents, medium water, temperate, 4 Billion, etc.) I hold a decent size territory and have explored a good chunk of my landmass, as well as circumnavigated the other landmass (though no inland exploration. I've only seen two volacanoes -- so I am not seeing the over-abundance that several people describe.
Catt  |
I too have selected "middle" setting for everything, except my typical Huge map. After 4 games played enough to explore a whole continent, I've seen (if I recall correctly, which I may not):
- Dutch: 1 volcano (small continent)
- Incas: 3 volcanos (large continent, not totally explored)
- Portugese: 2 volcanos? (very large continent, not totally explored)
- Dutch: 4 volcanos (very large continent)
Note that, as the Dutch, I really saw only the coastlines. So there may have been more volcanos internally.
The important point is that I often saw 2-3 squares covered in lava. And this is well before the year 0. So I think that's pretty significant, signicant enough that I may never build a city near a volcano... although I may plant colonies for iron or whatelse I may need.
Indeed, volcanos may finally make colonies worthwhile!
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Yahweh Sabaoth
|
|
The Heavens
Dec 2002
time: 05:31
|
|
Well, I played quite a bit more this morning. About 9 to 10 inconclusive games. No one game longer than 15 minutes. Should I have given up each game? No. But I was dissappointed by having the almost-glorious games I got in the last two days be followed by standard nonsense...
...A few tips:
- Curraghs are like scouts. Use discretion when using the numeric keypad to make sure you don't accidently tap your curragh into unsafe waters. I did this 3 times this morning! 
- Still build warriors. Ok, those curraghs and scouts can do a lot of work for you - especially the curraghs. But there's still barbarians in the game. 
...A few things I noticed:
- Curraghs and Scouts are NOT necessarily the be-all end-all of the game I was first impressed they would be.
- Does it take LONGER to mine now? It seems to take a lot longer, or maybe I'm just completely insane.
- Shizzle my nizzle. You WILL be the first to get Philosophy, almost no matter what. Just go ahead and research it.
- Alphabet is now a widespread starting tech. But it's still very very valuable in AI estimation. I got a whole sleiugh of techs trading away Alphabet. But I would recommend trading it away for whatever you can get when you meet a civ - but there's a whole lot of other civs with alphabet in the world now.
- Damn, those agricultural civs can grow! Lordy! I gave the Celts a brief shot this morning and quit when I realized they were on an "Australia" (tiny continent). But I intend to give them their due. In the hands of the AI, the Celts seem fairly impressive - which irks me, as I found them often too impressive in PTW as well, although for a different reason - too large an army in PTW, too large in population and REXing in Conquests.
- The Dutch totally rock. The Dutch may very well be a "super civ". In the hands of the AI, I've seen a mix of tiny Netherlands and huge Netherlands.
This morning I gave up WAY too easily a number of times. I just wanted to screw around mostly, so it's no big deal. This weekend (hopefully - RL is pretty hectic for me these days) I will sit down and play out either the Dutch, Spanish, Celts or English through the Ancient Era at least.
Please, everyone, continue jotting down impressions here...
|
|
| |
|
|
|
TheArsenal
|
 |
Sunny Southern California
Mar 2002
time: 21:31
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
- The Dutch totally rock. The Dutch may very well be a "super civ". In the hands of the AI, I've seen a mix of tiny Netherlands and huge Netherlands.
|
It sounds like you used the same attention deficit disorder method of checking out the game I did. I played each new civ for a handful of turns, then turned my full attention to what I was most interested in: the Pac WWII conquest.
I have to agree with you that the Dutch feel pretty strong, at least in the early part of the quick games I played. I did not get as far as the Swiss Mercenary, but on paper it is obviously a good UU. The Seafaring trait over all seems to be fairly strong for large random maps. The curragh gives a much better feel of the world than with land units alone, no matter what type of map, and beating other civs to first contact is always advantageous in trade - and there was no question I definitely had a better understanding of the globe than any AI who doesn't explore by sea as vigorously (patch?). It does change the build order decision process quite a bit as well. I had to decide what ratio of land scouting to sea scouting I wanted and decide how to balance that with settler building and city buildings.
I saw no abundance of volcanoes, just a handful on a large map. Based on the proximity of cities near them however, the AI doesn’t seem to be afraid of lava filled streets. Almost every desert I saw contained at least one Oasis, often more, which turned out to be quite a few on my maps. Tobacco seemed to be in abundance as well. And, it is probably just a random map generation fluke, but iron looked to be in scarcity. As I love to play Persia, this gave me pause.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
DCMike
|
|
I've just started my first game on a large map, haven't explored much at all and already discovered 3 volcanoes. Two of those have already erupted and one of those is already active again! Cool eruption graphics by the way!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Toaster4k
|
|
i don't live
Jul 2002
time: 00:31
|
|
thanks, ill try it as soon as my GF finish using my PC. i dont want to try this on a p200 mmx with 64 meg of ram :/
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Toaster4k
|
|
i don't live
Jul 2002
time: 00:31
|
|
i dont wish to declare a war without at elast 2 mutual protection pact, cause if it prove to be a wrong decision, briding with fur for a peace treaty might be to much for my minister of finace (my wallet)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
eric2075
|
|
indiana, usa
Apr 2003
time: 05:31
|
|
My first Conquest game is at Emperor as the Sumerians. I was kind of hurrying through it and got so far behind I was starting to think I should give it up. But I got caught up and now I'm the tech leader in the middle of the midievel age.
I'm not used to being able to research on my own at this point and still keep up but somehow I think I'm doing it.
I like my first impression of Conquests because I think it's going to be easier for the builder. Maybe a little easier in general.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:31.
Apolyton Time is 00:31. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
06-11-2003 20:49
. A couple turns later, I mysteriously win the game by conquest. 
Was it a bug related to my civilization being destroyed by a volcano, or was it some other bug? Eitherway, I got a pretty good score for winning on the fifth turn. 
Sounds like a bug alright.
|